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Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

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Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby SKB » 02 Jun 2015, 18:18

Image
^ HMS Archer (P264)

Introduction
The Archer class (or P2000) is a class of patrol and training vessel in service with the United Kingdom's Royal Navy, commonly referred to as a Fast Training Boat. Most are assigned to University Royal Naval Units, although HMS Tracker and HMS Raider are armed and provide maritime force protection to high value shipping in the Firth of Clyde although are most commonly employed as escorts for submarines transiting to Faslane.

Development
Ten vessels were ordered as the P2000 class, based on a design of an Omani coastguard cutter, from Watercraft Marine. They are twin-shaft vessels with moulded glass-reinforced plastic hulls. After that company went into liquidation, the balance of the order was completed by Vosper Thornycroft.

The Archers were initially used as Royal Navy patrol craft and as training tenders for the Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) and University Royal Naval Units (URNU). Four identical vessels were ordered for the Royal Naval Auxiliary Service (RNXS) as Example-class tenders. When that service was disbanded in 1994, the Examples were transferred to the Royal Navy for similar duties as their Archer-class brethren (under the same names under which they served as "XSVs", all of which begin with the first syllable "Ex"). Until 2005, the 4 Examples were still painted with a black hull.

In 1998 two additional vessels (Raider and Tracker) of this design were commissioned into the Royal Navy from Ailsa Shipbuilding Company, to replace Loyal Watcher and Loyal Chancellor as URNU training vessels for the two newest URNUs, serving Cambridge and Oxford Universities respectively (Raider was later transferred to Bristol URNU whilst Trumpeter became the ship of Cambridge URNU). This brought the total of Archer class vessels in the Royal Navy to 16, of which 14 form the 1st Patrol Boat Squadron (formerly the Inshore Training Squadron), each one attached to an URNU (one per unit) under the command of a Lieutenant. The remaining 2 vessels (Pursuer and Dasher), having formed the Cyprus Squadron from 2003 to 2010, and URNU vessels before that, returned to the UK in April 2010 to form the Faslane Patrol Boat Squadron, performing security duties within HMNB Clyde.

In 2012 Dasher and Pursuer were replaced by Raider and Tracker - these can be identified by a number of pintle-mounted L7 7.62 mm GPMG machine guns and armour plating. Ranger and Trumpeter were also formerly allocated to the Gibraltar Squadron for guard ship and search and rescue duties, but were replaced by the dedicated Scimitar class. These two ships were also used during the Thames River Pageant, escorting the Royal Barge during the Queens Diamond Jubilee. Unlike the remainder of the class, both these ships remain capable of being mounted with a 20 mm cannon on the fo'c'sle.

The NATO designation of a P2000 is "PBR", denoting a "Patrol Boat - Riverine and Harbours".

1. HMS Archer (P264) Commissioned 1985 (Edinburgh URNU)
2. HMS Biter (P270) Commissioned 1986 (Manchester URNU)
3. HMS Smiter (P272) Commissioned 1988 (Oxford URNU)
4. HMS Pursuer (P273) Commissioned 1988 (Glasgow URNU)
5. HMS Blazer (P279) Commissioned 1988 (Southampton URNU)
6. HMS Dasher (P280) Commissioned 1988 (Bristol URNU)
7. HMS Puncher (P291) Commissioned 1988 (London URNU)
8. HMS Charger (P292) Commissioned 1988 (Liverpool URNU)
9. HMS Ranger (P293) Commissioned 1988 (Sussex URNU)
10 HMS Trumpeter (P294) Commissioned 1988 (Cambridge URNU)

11. HMS Example (P165) Commissioned 1985 (ex-XSV Example, ex-A153) (Northumbrian URNU)
12. HMS Explorer (P164) Commissioned 1986 (ex-XSV Explorer, ex-A154) (Yorkshire URNU)
13. HMS Express (P163) Commissioned 1988 (ex-XSV Express, ex-A163) (Wales URNU)
14. HMS Exploit (P167) Commissioned 1988 (ex-XSV Exploit, ex-A167) (Birmingham URNU)

15. HMS Tracker (P274) Commissioned 1998 (Faslane Patrol Boat Squadron)
16. HMS Raider (P275) Commissioned 1998 (Faslane Patrol Boat Squadron)


Type: Patrol boat & training vessel
Displacement: 54 tonnes
Length: 20.8 m
Beam: 5.8 m
Draught: 1.8 m
Propulsion: 2 shafts, Cat C18 ACERT diesels
Speed:
25 kn (46 km/h)
45 kn (83 km/h) (Hull design, but limited due to engine fitted)
Range: 550 nmi (1,020 km)
Crew Complement:
18 (training)
12 (operational)
Sensors and processing systems: Decca 1216 navigation radar
Armament:
1 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannon on fo'c'sle ("for but not with")
3 × General purpose machine guns (Tracker & Raider)

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby SKB » 02 Jun 2015, 18:18


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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby GibMariner » 10 Jun 2016, 09:13


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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby marktigger » 10 Jun 2016, 10:03

i liked the Old HMS Attacker class of Fairey Marine tracker 2 boats we sold them to lebanon.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby GibMariner » 28 Jun 2016, 09:50

Lord West on Border Force not having enough cutters, suggests RN contribute P2000s as an emergency measure: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683826 ... el-EU-vote

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Axeborderer » 28 Jun 2016, 10:19

P2000 could be a temporary measure. Larger tonnage needed like the new HMC Protector (Home Office Border Force vessel). I think there are only three HO vessels of comparable size currently on ops in UK waters. Following Brexit we will need to build more.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby GibMariner » 29 Jun 2016, 09:56

Patrol Craft:Written question - 41012

Asked by Michael Fabricant
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, if he will make an assessment of the potential merits of the use of Archer type naval vessels to augment the coast guard.

Answered by: Penny Mordaunt
The Royal Navy (RN) operates the Archer Class P2000 ships to support the activities of the University RN Units, as well as general navigation and seamanship training.
In line with the principles of Military Aid to Civil Authorities, the Ministry of Defence (MOD) assesses the suitability of various capabilities, not just the P2000 Class, to achieve an effect when support is requested by another Government Department for a specific task. The MOD continues to be involved in the Government's contingency planning activity, but currently there is no formal request for MOD to supply assets in support of the coast guard.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -20/41012/

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby SKB » 28 Jul 2016, 02:00

Archer class were in use during the recent America's Cup event in Portsmouth

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby WhitestElephant » 06 Aug 2016, 17:28

With the navy being called upon to patrol the channel, but short in terms of appropriate hulls to do the job; could the P2000 fleet be replaced by something a little larger and more capable in open waters?

With these perhaps? Cheap at "£4.3M per unit".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKBF_42m_Customs_Cutter
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 06 Aug 2016, 17:53

if there we're funds available for more cutters they should go to the border force.
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Engaging Strategy » 06 Aug 2016, 17:54

WhitestElephant wrote:With the navy being called upon to patrol the channel, but short in terms of appropriate hulls to do the job; could the P2000 fleet be replaced by something a little larger and more capable in open waters?

With these perhaps? Cheap at "£4.3M per unit".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKBF_42m_Customs_Cutter


The issue is that you can't reasonably justify anything larger than a P2000 for training and URNU use. Their strength lies in them being so cheap that cutting them would save virtually nothing and so useful in terms of training, recruitment and flag-flying in small UK coastal towns and across North West Europe that there's no good reason to get rid of them.

Replacing them with cutters twice the size (42m vs ~20m) immediately limits their ability to get into those really small ports the P2000s visit, removes any chance that an URNU student would be allowed to Con one and adds little to their ability to perform training duties for sproggy warfare officers.

For their role the P2000s are an ideal size but they are NOT patrol boats and shouldn't be viewed as such. If the UK wants more 42m cutters they should go where they belong: the Border Force.
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Aethulwulf » 06 Aug 2016, 19:06

If the RN ever finds funds to replace the Archer class, I'd suggest the Interceptor Craft 20 M RW design from Docksta Varvet.
It has the same basic design as the CB90, which as a possible replacement for the LCVP, could make the Interceptor Craft 20 M RW a very useful training and patrol craft.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Engaging Strategy » 06 Aug 2016, 19:27

Aethulwulf wrote:If the RN ever finds funds to replace the Archer class, I'd suggest the Interceptor Craft 20 M RW design from Docksta Varvet.
It has the same basic design as the CB90, which as a possible replacement for the LCVP, could make the Interceptor Craft 20 M RW a very useful training and patrol craft.


The Archers won't need replacing for decades. There's still masses of life left in the GRP hulls and they're all currently undergoing a major modernisation programme with brand new CAT engines and internals. One of the few areas where the RN is doing quite well :)
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 06 Aug 2016, 20:56

I thought the Archers size was dictated also by the ability to navigate inland waterways?
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Engaging Strategy » 06 Aug 2016, 21:12

Repulse wrote:I thought the Archers size was dictated also by the ability to navigate inland waterways?


Yes, visiting small ports only accessible to small ships, traversing inland waterways and the like are all key roles for the P2000s. They do great work flag flying in small ports around the UK that otherwise would never see an RN warship.
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 29 Apr 2017, 14:47

Can anyone on here tell me when these are due to be replaced along with the scimitar ?
If it is any time soon would the new Mk Iv the US have just started to accept be ahold replacement, slightly larger hull, greater speed, longer endurance and over all better armed
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 29 Apr 2017, 16:05

Jake-san, I do not understand why you need to arm them?
If you are only talking about Simitar, I have a question why not CB90, which could be common to RM ?

I agree ORC and CB90 of RM is/will be armed, but Archer-class is something more "simple, cheap, abundant in number" vessels. These types of vessels are always needed (=must) in Navy. Heavily armed vessel will never be cheap to operate, and it will kill (reduce) significant amount of hull numbers for sure.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 29 Apr 2017, 16:37

I only put the 2 together as yesterday in the space of a few mins the saw the new images of the archers rarely all together and then an article of the US accepting the first 10 of the Mk vi.

To me they look like the perfect boat for the job slightly more capable than the archers, being armed for me would be a good thing in Gibraltar and protecting the nuclear deterrent base as the archers do but what would happen if they had no weapons and the agresors refused to move off ?
I admit I am not sure what other roles they do besides training but they could be very useful in port protection such and Bahrain.

I never thought of the cb90 for that to be honest

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 29 Apr 2017, 16:59

Thanks, I am not saying something strong, either.

- arming every vessel is bad way to go. Navy is navy, including many "every-day" works. Navy goes with many non-amred vessels, which has a strong point on being cheap to operate. In other words, navy can buy and operate them in number. If you arm them, you are actually just cutting their number or robbing resource from other assets. This is something we shall never forget.

- Simiter-class patrol boat has a size the same to CB90. This is why I said CB90 as a candidate for Simiter-replacements. Of course this is not because CB90 is the best boat to replace Simiter. But, I believe RN/RM shall purchase a dozen of CB90s for assault/patrol/port-guard duties combined = common hull.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 29 Apr 2017, 17:06

I understand not arming every vessel but it might be wise to arm a few of them for port protection in ports like the nuclear deterrent that are hight risk or ports like Gibraltar where you have the Spanish causing trouble.

The CB90 could be a decent replacement for areas like these, granted not a capable or have as longer sea legs as the Mk vi but like you say the commonality of hulls could allow good number.

Do you know what sort of price the CB90 ( modified version for RN/RM ) will be ?
The Mk vi PB is said to be $15 ( £12 ) each for the high end set up the US have

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 30 Apr 2017, 08:57

The RN has always ignored small boat investment to its peril. There is a significant terrorist / smuggler threat along with the Territorial water issue with Spain and up and coming issues with Fisheries - some of which are in the English Channel.

A mixture of Combat Boats and also Fast Patrol Craft (@20m long) would a good answer. The latter should have a small calibre gun and LMM / Hellfire to be able to stop / disable vessels in a cluttered environment.

Given the additional RM ships should be 16 CB90s and 12 larger Fast Patrol vessels.
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 30 Apr 2017, 09:14

Repulse so would you agree something along the lines of the US's new Mk vi would be a nice fit for the larger of the patrol boats ?

It would be nice if funding was there to get a one for one replacement of the archers and simiter classes, at £12m odd each could be done for just over £200m leaving a little give way in the budget.

We also need armed patrol boats or fast protection craft to protect our bases in Bahrain and Oman these are terbilant areas and we can't expect the US to protects our bases. I also believe using unarmed boats to protect the Clyde is a big risk.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 30 Apr 2017, 10:49

Repulse wrote:A mixture of Combat Boats and also Fast Patrol Craft (@20m long) would a good answer. The latter should have a small calibre gun and LMM / Hellfire to be able to stop / disable vessels in a cluttered environment.
I do understand the need for Combat Boats to be armed (Gib, Fasnlane, etc...), but "Fast Patrol Craft (@20m long)" only needs 0.5 cal. Fleet of 20m FPBs steaming around English channel with LMMs/Hellfires? No way, it is totally a waste of money.

Let's concentrate on what UK needs. Day-by-day, often dull every-day operation is the main theater. We shall concentrate on making those every-day operation easy and fruitful. Adding missile and in place FOR SURE significantly losing number is not good. A boat with stabilized 0.5 Cal RWS at best is the perfect answer for me. When you need to sink a swarm of enemy boats, call Wildcats equipped with 20 LMMs.

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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 30 Apr 2017, 11:06

Totally with donald here
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Re: Archer Class Patrol & Training Vessel (PBR) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 30 Apr 2017, 11:18

I said earlier to Donald that I agree with not needing to arm all of the archer replacement but do think some could do with arming mainly the ones protecting the most vital ports like the Clyde, my thinking is that if your arming a few why not arm thrm all for commonality.

I only surgested the MK vi is like I said it just happened to come up at a similar time to me seeing about the archers, I'm open to others.
I do agree that some of the armament on the MK vi are over the top for us.


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