Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

[SKB]

Brexit rebellion avoided after 'meaningful vote' offer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38895007

[FuNsTeR]

looks like the jocko witch will be calling another referendum within the next few weeks

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/po ... -indyref2/
give England the vote and we will vote them jocks out the UK gladly

[dmereifield]

looks like the jocko witch will be calling another referendum within the next few weeks

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/po ... -indyref2/
give England the vote and we will vote them jocks out the UK gladly

Depressing, hopefully just an outlier...we all know how accurate the polls have been lately. Let's see how they next few polls look. I'd still be surprised if Sturgeon does call for a referendum in the near term, but, I suspect that if she does it will be in the knowledge that it won't be granted by HMG and thus it will just be a political tool to try to drive her agenda further, using the narrative that the Conservatives/England/Westminster are ignoring the wishes of Scotland.

I'm not sure England would vote that way, I hope not. I think we need to be careful to discern the difference between the SNP and Scotland

[FuNsTeR]

looks like the jocko witch will be calling another referendum within the next few weeks

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/po ... -indyref2/
give England the vote and we will vote them jocks out the UK gladly

Depressing, hopefully just an outlier...we all know how accurate the polls have been lately. Let's see how they next few polls look. I'd still be surprised if Sturgeon does call for a referendum in the near term, but, I suspect that if she does it will be in the knowledge that it won't be granted by HMG and thus it will just be a political tool to try to drive her agenda further, using the narrative that the Conservatives/England/Westminster are ignoring the wishes of Scotland.

I'm not sure England would vote that way, I hope not. I think we need to be careful to discern the difference between the SNP and Scotland

if they do call it , plans will need to be put in place for basing our submarines elsewhere and contracts cancelled for new ship builds that were due to be built on the clyde it would be a massive headache plus having to divy up 8.3% of our military hardware, there argument last time round was share of the assets for a share of the liabilities = debt, because i think they will win this time

[dmereifield]

It would depend on the timing, it's possible, but still unlikely, if it's prebrexit, but May won't approve it. If Sturgeon does demand a referendum, instead of the current hype about it being on the table, which is a big IF, I imagine May would respond by insisting that the SNP fight the next Scottish Parliamentary election with an indyref manifesto pledge, with HMG honoring the pledge if the SNP won a majority

[bobp]

The Lib Dems failed in their call for a referendum on the result of any Brexit negotiations.

[hopper]

Let the Prime minister negotiate the leaving terms with the EU and when that is finalised let sturgeon have her 2nd referendum , either the UK or the EU . Personally would probably prefer the latter if it means not having the intolerant bigots beamed into my front room .

[SKB]

Brexit trigger bill passed in Commons third reading.
(BBC)

MPs have overwhelmingly agreed to let the government begin the UK's departure from the EU as they voted for the Brexit Bill.

The draft legislation was approved by 494 votes to 122, and now moves to the House of Lords. Shadow business secretary Clive Lewis was one of 52 Labour MPs to defy party orders to back the bill and he resigned from the front bench. PM Theresa May wants to trigger formal Brexit talks by the end of March. She will do this by invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, but requires Parliament's permission before doing so.

Mr Lewis, who earlier said he was undecided on whether to support the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, announced his resignation as MPs began voting for the final time. He said he "cannot, in all good conscience, vote for something I believe will ultimately harm the city I have the honour to represent, love and call home". Leader Jeremy Corbyn said he understood the difficulties the vote presented some of his MPs but said they had been ordered to back the Article 50 because the party would not "block Brexit".

Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott, who missed last week's initial vote on the bill, backed it this time. She told the BBC she had "a lot of misgivings about the idea of a Tory Brexit" and predicted the UK would "come to regret it", but added: "I'm a loyal member of the shadow cabinet and I'm loyal to Jeremy Corbyn". The Labour rebellion was five MPs up on last week's vote, while former Chancellor Ken Clarke was again the only Conservative to vote against the two-clause bill.

During the voting, SNP MPs were reprimanded by deputy speaker Lindsay Hoyle after they started singing "Ode to Joy", the European Union anthem.

Afterwards, Brexit Secretary David Davis hailed the "historic vote", adding: "It is now time for everyone, whichever way they voted in the referendum, to unite to make a success of the important task at hand for our country". Peers will now consider the draft legislation, and a government source told BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg: "If the Lords don't want to face an overwhelming public call to be abolished they must get on and protect democracy and pass this bill."

Earlier the bill survived several attempts to change its wording and add extra conditions. These included Labour MP Harriet Harman's bid to protect the residence rights of EU citizens in the UK, which was outvoted by 332 votes to 290, with three Conservative MPs rebelling. A Liberal Democrat bid for a referendum on the terms of the UK leaving the EU was defeated by 340 votes to 33.

Afterwards, Mr Corbyn tweeted: "Real fight starts now. Over next two years Labour will use every opportunity to ensure Brexit protects jobs, living standards and the economy". But Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon accused him of giving the Conservatives a "blank cheque". She tweeted: "You didn't win a single concession but still voted for the bill. Pathetic". The bill will be debated in the House of Lords after it returns from recess on 20 February. Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron vowed the party's peers would seek to amend the bill in the Lords, including another attempt to ensure a referendum on the final Brexit deal.

[ArmChairCivvy]

when that is finalised let sturgeon have her 2nd referendum , either the UK or the EU .

I wish it was that straightforward (and agree with the sequence). But will it, for the latter, be the
- Swiss/ Norwegian/ Greenland model? (Only the last one applicable as it is about leaving and rejoining).
- or normal accession (upto a decade long process)

[SKB]

SNP cautioned over singing EU anthem in UK House of Commons

[bobp]

Yes I watched the EU Anthem being sung yesterday. It just shows what a bunch of hooligans the SNP are. No respect for the traditions of the house whatsoever. The speaker should have kicked them out.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The speaker should have kicked them out.

I think they outnumber the ushers? The border, with passport checks will do the job...

[SKB]

Just had a thought... the European Ryder Cup golf team uses the EU flag and anthem for all it's European players. The EU flag is not a geographic flag which represents all European countries, it represents just the current 28 EU member states. Would that arrangement have to change after Brexit in 2+ years from now? And would the team have to renamed "UK & Europe"? The Ryder Cup used to be exclusively USA vs GB in the past before other Europeean countries were included.

[Pseudo]

Just had a thought... the European Ryder Cup golf team uses the EU flag and anthem for all it's European players. The EU flag is not a geographic flag which represents all European countries, it represents just the 27 EU member states. Would that have to change after Brexit in 2+ years from now? And would the team have to renamed "UK & Europe"? The Ryder Cup used to be exclusively USA vs GB in the past before other Europeean countries were included.

The flag originated with the Council of Europe in the 1950's to represent the continent. It wasn't adopted by the EU (then the EEC) until the 80's.

[hopper]

when that is finalised let sturgeon have her 2nd referendum , either the UK or the EU .

I wish it was that straightforward (and agree with the sequence). But will it, for the latter, be the
- Swiss/ Norwegian/ Greenland model? (Only the last one applicable as it is about leaving and rejoining).
- or normal accession (upto a decade long process)

You mean the swiss/Norwegian/Greenland model for the scots re-joining the EU ? Couldn't care less mate , they could attach themselves to mother Russia for all I care , the UK is finished while the SNP are running Scotland . The antics they have shown in Westminster this week is making a mockery out of all of it . A three hour debate with a member of the SNP filibustering for 58 minutes while other members were wanting to speak (for and against) and then humming of the European anthem . The SNP are paying an absolute blinder . Yours disgruntled

[Cooper]

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind:

[dmereifield]

Hope he's correct, but then he did predict a win for remain....lets see what the next round of polling shows...

[rockey.udf]

Apparently Britain's old colony called USA, is using Britain as a bait to destabilize EU.

[ArmChairCivvy]

using Britain as a bait to destabilize EU.

Not sure about that, but what is sure is that the US ambassador to the EU is not exactly thinking on the same lines as most of the people he will have to deal with
- this becomes interesting in the light of history
- e.g. Romania and Bulgaria would not be in the EU now (yet) had it not been for the US insisting that all those who shed the Warsaw Pact yoke must be rewarded, so that rolling back the location of the "Iron Curtain" becomes impossible
- and all we get for the pleasure is the constant whining about burden sharing!

[SKB]

EU 'desperate' to continue fishing in UK waters after Brexit.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/767809 ... t-revealed

[Galloglass]

A new cod war with Europe perhaps?
Is Scottish Marine sufficiently well equipped to look after the UKs North Sea and Atlantic resources? Seems like a good time to transfer the Batch1 Rivers to Holyrood.

[marktigger]

who knows. I think it'll be interesting to see the Northern ireland/ Republic border. I suspect the british/Northern Irish and Irish will all want the same thing and Pressure will be put on Dublin. Which I hope the Irish Govt resists.

[Pseudo]

A new cod war with Europe perhaps?
Is Scottish Marine sufficiently well equipped to look after the UKs North Sea and Atlantic resources? Seems like a good time to transfer the Batch1 Rivers to Holyrood.

As far as I'm aware it's more a case of the UN protocols on conserving fishing stocks that the UK and other member states have signed up to and are enacted under the CFP would be incredibly difficult to unravel the UK from.

[dmereifield]

A new cod war with Europe perhaps?
Is Scottish Marine sufficiently well equipped to look after the UKs North Sea and Atlantic resources? Seems like a good time to transfer the Batch1 Rivers to Holyrood.

As far as I'm aware it's more a case of the UN protocols on conserving fishing stocks that the UK and other member states have signed up to and are enacted under the CFP would be incredibly difficult to unravel the UK from.

Said protocols could be executed outside of the framework of the CFP

[Pseudo]

A new cod war with Europe perhaps?
Is Scottish Marine sufficiently well equipped to look after the UKs North Sea and Atlantic resources? Seems like a good time to transfer the Batch1 Rivers to Holyrood.

As far as I'm aware it's more a case of the UN protocols on conserving fishing stocks that the UK and other member states have signed up to and are enacted under the CFP would be incredibly difficult to unravel the UK from.

Said protocols could be executed outside of the framework of the CFP

Indeed they could, but from the sound of it it's an enormous fuck on, which everyone will lose from.

Though in fairness, that's Brexit all over.