F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[Gabriele]

Apparently 809 NAS will only stand up in April 2023.

Now it is official: the SDSR 2015 did not speed up anything.

[bobp]

Now it is official: the SDSR 2015 did not speed up anything.

And the so called equipment budget of 189 billion over the next decade.?

[Ianmb17]

Spear 3 for f35

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/411- ... 00-uk-jobs

[downsizer]

Apparently 809 NAS will only stand up in April 2023.

Now it is official: the SDSR 2015 did not speed up anything.

I am shocked. Or not.

[Gabriele]

It has been pretty clear all the while, but it remains pretty impressive to see how economic / imaginative with the truth all the SDSR messages were and are.

[Beagle24]

Very sad if that is indeed the case. An earlier article from Janes had suggested 809 would initially be reformed to support F35 carrier trials in 2018. I had assumed this would initially be as a small test unit migrating to a full operational squadron later in the lighting force build up. Although the RAF has been very careful to convey the mixed crewing of 617 there is still something slightly strange that an RAF unit will be the first to fly off the QE in an airframe that is essentially designed and purchased with the aim of maritime strike.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Very sad if that is indeed the case. An earlier article from Janes had suggested 809 would initially be reformed to support F35 carrier trials in 2018. I had assumed this would initially be as a small test unit migrating to a full operational squadron later in the lighting force build up. Although the RAF has been very careful to convey the mixed crewing of 617 there is still something slightly strange that an RAF unit will be the first to fly off the QE in an airframe that is essentially designed and purchased with the aim of maritime strike.

This has been my thinking,too. I have not seen that IHS Janes article, but the IOC for carrier strike still has the date set (has not been revised, but is defined as 12 F35Bs onboard and operational). One practicality is that the FAA does not exist as a fixed wing, fast jet force and rebuilding it (even with mixed crewing) will take time.

[jonas]

This makes a change from all the never ending carping about the F35 :-

http://www.sldinfo.com/visiting-the-pax ... an-update/

[bobp]

Janes still hints that 809 Sqdrn will be formed in 2018 with full operational status in 2023.

http://www.janes.com/article/60538/uk-b ... r-and-f-35

[ArmChairCivvy]

That

"The second unit - the Fleet Air Arm's 809 'Immortals' Naval Air Squadron (NAS) - will be created ahead of the start of sea trials aboard the new HMS Queen Elizabeth in 2018, with the full operating capability (FOC - Land and Maritime) for the type being declared in 2023."

stacks up well with sticking to the IOC for "carrier strike" in 2020.

[Gabriele]

The dates are probably all "correct" in their own ways.
617 is only "standing up" in Jan 2018, but the build up is already on. Assuming it is the same for 809, they will have been around for a while before the 2023 date. With what kind of numbers and capability is the real question.

[Ron5]

Who wants to bet that the RAF squadron never goes to sea on the QE? I think it's likely they'll leave all the carrier qualification to 809.

[downsizer]

Who wants to bet that the RAF squadron never goes to sea on the QE? I think it's likely they'll leave all the carrier qualification to 809.

You can think what you like, but its wrong.

[bobp]

Who wants to bet that the RAF squadron never goes to sea on the QE? I think it's likely they'll leave all the carrier qualification to 809.

Just because its got a RAF Squadron badge means zilch, it will be manned by RN and RAF personnel. I expect that planes from each of the squadrons will be deployed.

[Ron5]

Looks like I have two takers

[Beagle24]

At some point post 2023 both squadrons will have to collectively embark to fully work up the high intensity aspect of carrier strike. As for the routine carrier deployments I am assuming 617 snd 809 will change places regularly to ensure carrier qualifications are maintained?

[arfah]

..................

[shark bait]

I am assuming 617 snd 809 will change places regularly to ensure carrier qualifications are maintained?

I assume they will have to, maintaining carrier skills across the RAF and AAC is going to be the most challenging parts of the tailored air group concept.

[LordJim]

Although squadrons numbers have been allocated, Both RN and RAF crew and ground crew will operate in each. Also aircraft will be pooled so 809 will be stood up when sufficient aircraft are in the pool but it means the number of platforms under the 617 banner will increase until then as will the number of personnel between 2018 and 2023

[ArmChairCivvy]

RAF publicity team could learn from this

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -b-425648/

live streaming, AF Open Day... all of that two years ahead of the real, effective date.

These things have a glacial pace, and therefore it helps to keep the public (tax payer) informed.

[GibMariner]

I don't think this has been posted here before, apologies if it has.

U.K. Planning Four Front-Line F-35 Squadrons

The U.K. is planning to build a future force of four front-line F-35 squadrons, now that the country has committed to a fleet of 138 aircraft. The U.K. will build a front-line fleet of 48 aircraft, 12 per squadron. A fifth unit, also with 12 aircraft, will be formed as an operational conversion unit (OCU), Air Cmdr. Harvey Smyth, the commander of the U.K.’s Lightning Force, told reporters on the sidelines of an F-35 training conference here May 19. An additional three ...

Unfortunately the rest is behind a paywall: http://aviationweek.com/defense/uk-plan ... -squadrons

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

And the other 78 fit in where exactly??? Don't know why but it seems to be a dangerous hint that we will fail to operate anymore than 60 Lightnings at any one time or something of that sort.

[downsizer]

Sat in hangars being rotated in and out of use, still be built, scrapped, crashed, with 17 in the US, deep maintenance, modification. Exactly the same as our jets are these days.

[bobp]

The United Kingdom's nascent joint Royal Air Force (RAF)/Royal Navy Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning Force is planning to achieve a 50:50 balance between live and synthetic training as the aircraft comes into service towards the end of this decade.
Read more at:

http://www.janes.com/article/60972/uk-f ... live-split

[downsizer]

The United Kingdom's nascent joint Royal Air Force (RAF)/Royal Navy Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning Force is planning to achieve a 50:50 balance between live and synthetic training as the aircraft comes into service towards the end of this decade.
Read more at:

http://www.janes.com/article/60972/uk-f ... live-split

Which sadly is all about money saving rather than an actual training benefit.