Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

[Markam]

I hadn't heard of this news site before happening upon the article, it does seem like a bit of a hit piece on German arms manufacturers by "Nicholas Peterson" who is apparently a civil servant, possibly British or Australian.

Eurasian Times seems to be an Indian/Canadian news site, reading the profiles of the founders some of them are educated in Glasgow, so I am not sure if they are super anti NATO, though I would have to read a bunch more of their articles to get a feel for their leaning. The article says it is an opinion piece either way.

I do not know much about this Drummond chap either, but if the Boxer is so great with its modularity it would be excellent if the UK or Australia could take the lead in marketing it to global customers, if what the article says is true in that Germany is not super enthused. If not, we will end up with closed factories once the initial orders dry up.

[Caribbean]

"Nicholas Peterson" isn't British or Australian - neither of those would refer to the "Royal Army". He sounds like a fake "source" to me.

Eurasian Times has a long-standing habit of parroting CCP messaging. Relatively low-key - it also often publishes puff pieces for some piece of Russian junk comparing it favourably with Western equipment. I think it's aiming for "non-aligned", but regularly misses the mark. Worth reading for non-Western concerns, but don't expect too much criticism of Russia & China

[sol]

Not sure would I take this article as accurate. For example

Simultaneously, Germany, one of the main members of the OJAC/Boxer program, was developing its own IFV. Rheinmetall, the huge German defense contractor, started developing the Lynx to “fill a gap” in the market.

This vehicle, which competes with the Boxer, has already been acquired by Hungary (which is unlikely to have occurred without Berlin’s tacit consent). The German Bundeswehr uses the heavier variant, the Puma, while the Lynx is mainly aimed at exports to compensate for the Puma’s low commercial performance.

Lynx does not compete with Boxer.

To date, a little over 600 have been produced and fielded, including in the German Bundeswehr, which has acquired 400 of the vehicles.

It is over 700 already built for Germany, Netherlands and Lithuania and Australia so far, with over 900 more ordered by UK, Germany and Australia. I mean article is from this month so numbers should be the same.

In late 2020, Qatar announced its intention to purchase around 500 IFVs, with its sights initially set on the Boxer. However, in November 2023, Qatari officials were discreetly invited to the Hungarian Lynx factory (not at the more visible German headquarters) to review the platform.

If I am not wrong, Boxer is competing with VBCI 2, not Lynx. And while recently Qatar delegation had visited Rheinmetall, it is not sure does this have any connection with potential VBCI/Boxer order or for some other reasons.

[bobp]

Would this be useful for protection against drones?

[sol]

Would this be useful for protection against drones?

In what way? RT-60 is not really designed to fight drones and while could be used not sure how effective it would be. There are better solutions for this, like Skyranger 30 or 35, both tested on Boxer and first one even ordered by Germans.

But whole idea of creating not one but 4 new cavalry regiments on Boxer ... sigh ... I really do not understand how some people came up with such ideas.

[tomuk]

Would this be useful for protection against drones?

In what way? RT-60 is not really designed to fight drones and while could be used not sure how effective it would be. There are better solutions for this, like Skyranger 30 or 35, both tested on Boxer and first one even ordered by Germans.

But whole idea of creating not one but 4 new cavalry regiments on Boxer ... sigh ... I really do not understand how some people came up with such ideas.

They are paid consultants of the manufacturer.

[mr.fred]

Would this be useful for protection against drones?

It kind of sounds like Ajax’s role, for which we already have Ajax.

For close protection of existing Boxer units four entirely separate units doesn’t seem like a good solution, unless you have a vested interest in supplying them.

[sol]

Dutch study for the fire support Boxer. Looks like it was considered as not feasible due weight and transport restrictions.

[tomuk]

Dutch study for the fire support Boxer. Looks like it was considered as not feasible due weight and transport restrictions.

But sticking 155mm Howitzer on Boxer is feasible?

[RunningStrong]

But sticking 155mm Howitzer on Boxer is feasible?

Different transport concept, clearly.

[Jackstar]

A significant milestone in the modernisation of our artillery was reached today, following a landmark defence agreement with Germany.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and Chancellor Scholz announced our collaboration with Germany on the Remote-Controlled Howitzer 155mm (RCH 155) 52 calibre Wheeled Artillery Systems.

We aim to deliver RCH 155 into service this decade. It will equip Royal Artillery soldiers with a world-class close support artillery system to deliver lethal and decisive effect for ground warfare across the span of operations.

The criticality of artillery fire has never been clearer. Automated artillery systems have packed a powerful punch on the battlefield in Ukraine, and RCH 155 will provide a modernised capability unparalleled in other artillery systems.

RCH 155 will provide a worldclass 155mm self-propelled artillery gun system to the Royal Artillery – an excellent strategic fit with the British Army of the future.”
LIEUTENANT GENERAL DAME SHARON NESMITH DCB, DEPUTY CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF
RCH 155 delivers increased range and accuracy for artillery engagements, a high rate-of-fire of up to nine rounds-per-minute and possesses a powerful blend of tactical and operational mobility.

Able to deliver multiple rounds onto a target simultaneously in a 360-degree arc at range, it also has a direct fire capability providing close range defence.

As part of the Boxer family, it uses the common Boxer drive module, creating efficiencies in support through platform commonality and modularity, and improving interoperability.

Lieutenant General Dame Sharon Nesmith DCB, Deputy Chief of the General Staff, said:

“I am very proud that we have the opportunity to collaborate with Germany to develop RCH 155 as the British Army’s Mobile Fires Platform.

“It not only presents an invaluable opportunity to work alongside our vital ally Germany, but also demonstrates our clear commitment to and leadership role within NATO.

“RCH 155 will provide a worldclass 155mm self-propelled artillery gun system to the Royal Artillery – an excellent strategic fit with the British Army of the future.”

Given the importance of close combat artillery to warfighting, coupled with the ‘pre-war’ situation that military chiefs and political leaders have warned the UK is in, the project team will look, where possible, to accelerate delivery of RCH 155.

A joint assessment and qualification plan will exploit the combined capabilities of test and trials centres in the UK and Germany, enabling faster delivery at less cost.

The export market is potentially worth upwards of £3bn to the British economy and marks a step change towards a deeper industrial and wider defence relationship between the two nations.

The joint industrial programme will build on years of successful cooperation on Land systems between the UK and Germany, such as the UK’s joint amphibious M3 bridging capability, Challenger 3 tank turret technology and munitions, and the other Boxer variants that will be manufactured in the UK.

The programme has the potential to bring significant economic benefits to the UK, including component construction, creating hundreds of jobs across more than 100 separate British-based suppliers that support the wider Boxer programme.


https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events ... -platform/

[bobp]

Good news, I thought the German company has some on order for Ukraine.

[Little J]

this bit surprised me...

The RCH 155 will be produced and supported in the United Kingdom with Rheinmetall establishing UK barrel manufacturing.

[BB85]

Interesting that Krauss-Maffei Wegmann has merged with Nexter, that will certainly help them when it comes to pursuing a future European MBT and other armoured vehicles and might explain why Rheinmetall is keen to have closer ties on future UK projects.

[Ron5]

this bit surprised me...

The RCH 155 will be produced and supported in the United Kingdom with Rheinmetall establishing UK barrel manufacturing.

Very surprising. I doubt if it is correct or will remain so.

[tomuk]

Interesting that Krauss-Maffei Wegmann has merged with Nexter, that will certainly help them when it comes to pursuing a future European MBT and other armoured vehicles and might explain why Rheinmetall is keen to have closer ties on future UK projects.

Nexter and KMW happened 8 years ago.

[Ron5]

this bit surprised me...

The RCH 155 will be produced and supported in the United Kingdom with Rheinmetall establishing UK barrel manufacturing.

Very surprising. I doubt if it is correct or will remain so.

Nicholas Drummond appears to have removed his claim that the barrels will be made in the UK.

[Poiuytrewq]

Nicholas Drummond appears to have removed his claim that the barrels will be made in the UK.

Unless the MoD starts ordering barrels in some decent quantities it’s difficult to see how UK barrel manufacturing would survive long term.

Use it or lose it.

[bobp]

I assume that these highly automated guns will need ammunition loading carriers as well.

[RunningStrong]

I assume that these highly automated guns will need ammunition loading carriers as well.

K9 had the K10 ammunition carrier, but as far as I know, everything else is a manual loading (PzH 2000). Any reason why a MAN truck can't supply?

[mr.fred]

K9 had the K10 ammunition carrier, but as far as I know, everything else is a manual loading (PzH 2000). Any reason why a MAN truck can't supply?

One would hope that the MAN truck rocks up with a couple of crew to help with the loading, since a 3 man crew will have a much harder time of it than the five currently operating each gun.

[sol]

K9 had the K10 ammunition carrier, but as far as I know, everything else is a manual loading (PzH 2000).

There is M992 Field Artillery Ammunition Supply Vehicle for M109, but if I am not wrong it is not providing automatic transfer of shells. So you can think of if as a better armoured truck.

One would hope that the MAN truck rocks up with a couple of crew to help with the loading, since a 3 man crew will have a much harder time of it than the five currently operating each gun.

It is 2 man crew, not 3.

[mr.fred]

It is 2 man crew, not 3.

Even worse then.

[RunningStrong]

K9 had the K10 ammunition carrier, but as far as I know, everything else is a manual loading (PzH 2000). Any reason why a MAN truck can't supply?

One would hope that the MAN truck rocks up with a couple of crew to help with the loading, since a 3 man crew will have a much harder time of it than the five currently operating each gun.

Ze Germans had suggested that with a 2-man crew you'd put two crews per platform, with the second crew resting in the resupply and supporting maintenance and replenishment.

So yes, 2 on platform, 2 on logs truck, plus logs driver.

[new guy]

I assume that these highly automated guns will need ammunition loading carriers as well.

Patent pictures: