RBSL Challenger 3 (Future) Main Battle Tank (British Army)

[SD67]

Yea .... that won't happen. Even after review of the FS, number of tanks to be upgraded will not be increased and will stay just 148 tanks. There is very little chance, if not at all, that this would be changed.

Why not? Logically it makes complete sense.

How can the Army continue to ask for an increase in funding when a straightforward and cost effective option for the remaining CH2 to be upgraded to CH3 is not taken?

Meanwhile billions£ is spent on a handful of SF Chinooks?

Why not bin the SF Chinooks and use the funding to supercharge the NMH programme to around 100 and transfer Army AH1 Wildcats to RN, upgrade the remaining CH2 to CH3 and restart the Warrior upgrade program. It’s not perfect but it buys time to sort out a proper industrial strategy to rebuild UK sovereign tracked vehicle manufacturing.

The UK needs as many CH3 as can be upgraded. Warrior and AS90 needs to be upgraded or replaced. M270 numbers need to be maximised and an all tracked 3rd Div should be the ambition even if it takes another decade to get there.

Why just accept the decline? More can be achieved if better decision making and ruthless prioritisation is implemented.

When funding is limited luxuries are unaffordable. Pragmatism must prevail.

Because the Chinooks are American. Therefore they are Perfect. By Definition. Like P8 and AH64E they possess a special trans Atlantic godlike quality that cannot be assessed via conventional cost benefit analysis. Industrial strategy is ephemeral, post service career opportunities are real. Those air miles don't earn themselves

[SW1]

There was an exchange at the defence committee with the VCDS and defence secretary that seemed to suggest there is insufficient challenger 2 hulls in an acceptable material state to perhaps event meet the 148 upgrade number let alone anymore than that. There was no pushback to this suggestion from the mod representatives. It is beginning to have the warrior/nimrod vibe about it again that we should have built new hulls perhaps we do never learn.

[RunningStrong]

There was an exchange at the defence committee with the VCDS and defence secretary that seemed to suggest there is insufficient challenger 2 hulls in an acceptable material state to perhaps event meet the 148 upgrade number let alone anymore than that. There was no pushback to this suggestion from the mod representatives. It is beginning to have the warrior/nimrod vibe about it again that we should have built new hulls perhaps we do never learn.

Perhaps the suggestion was more along the lines of "what if"?

[SW1]

There was an exchange at the defence committee with the VCDS and defence secretary that seemed to suggest there is insufficient challenger 2 hulls in an acceptable material state to perhaps event meet the 148 upgrade number let alone anymore than that. There was no pushback to this suggestion from the mod representatives. It is beginning to have the warrior/nimrod vibe about it again that we should have built new hulls perhaps we do never learn.

Perhaps the suggestion was more along the lines of "what if"?

There was a lot of from what we’re hearing ect from the committee in questioning the sec def about it. They were also quite forthright in telling the defence secretary and the VCDS they wanted the program cancelled.

[whitelancer]

There was a lot of from what we’re hearing ect from the committee in questioning the sec def about it. They were also quite forthright in telling the defence secretary and the VCDS they wanted the program cancelled.

Why did they want it cancelled?
As for not having enough hulls in a fit state, I find that difficult to believe.

[RunningStrong]

There was an exchange at the defence committee with the VCDS and defence secretary that seemed to suggest there is insufficient challenger 2 hulls in an acceptable material state to perhaps event meet the 148 upgrade number let alone anymore than that. There was no pushback to this suggestion from the mod representatives. It is beginning to have the warrior/nimrod vibe about it again that we should have built new hulls perhaps we do never learn.

Perhaps the suggestion was more along the lines of "what if"?

There was a lot of from what we’re hearing ect from the committee in questioning the sec def about it. They were also quite forthright in telling the defence secretary and the VCDS they wanted the program cancelled.

Can you name a programme they didn't want cancelled?

[SD67]

Somebody has open up a good argument for a debate on the totality of the entire program ????
Everyone opinions are welcomed !!!!
https://x.com/nicholadrummond/status/17 ... 10002?s=20

And where do Nicholas and KNDS are expecting money for 148 new tanks to come from? And for some 100 other support vehicles to replace Titan, Trojan and CRARRV? Previously Nicholas himself was saying that buying Leopard 2 as a replacement for CR2 was considered to expensive and there was no money for it, so is KNDS giving a hefty discount now? And who will pay for costs of training Ukrainians to operate CR2, plus maintenance all tanks sent to Ukraine, because UK is doing that now for 14 tanks sent to Ukraine, for more tanks those cost will rise up. And what about all money spent so far and all contracts signed for development of CR3? Just forget about it I guess.

Reading between the lines it sounds like Germany still don't want to openly supply Ukraine with large numbers of Leo2, so this convoluted approach is being suggested whereby the German government give KNDS a subsidy under the table, who in turn give a massive discount to the British Army, which in turn finances the CR2 donation to Ukraine.

Interesting idea - maybe we can try it with Typhoons to KSA

[sol]

Reading between the lines it sounds like Germany still don't want to openly supply Ukraine with large numbers of Leo2, so this convoluted approach is being suggested whereby the German government give KNDS a subsidy under the table, who in turn give a massive discount to the British Army, which in turn finances the CR2 donation to Ukraine.

I am not sure where did you read that between the lines. It is hell of assumption without a single evidence.

[sol]

[Jackstar]

Oxley Group has secured the award of a contract for LED lighting for the British Army’s upgraded Challenger 3 Main Battle Tank (MBT).
The contract, awarded by Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL), is worth approximately £1.39M.
Oxley Group will be providing internal cabin lighting, breach lighting and task lighting for the programme, with manufacturing commencing in 2025.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/oxley-g ... k-project/

[mr.fred]

Good to hear things are moving forwards, but those are some very expensive lights.
Tens of thousands per vehicle?

[Jackstar]

Good to hear things are moving forwards, but those are some very expensive lights.
Tens of thousands per vehicle?

Cost of the lights, plus spares, repairs and support over a period of time.

[Jackstar]

British Army conducts tests to provide new transmission for Challenger 3 tank.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense ... rades.html

[NickC]

British Army conducts tests to provide new transmission for Challenger 3 tank.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense ... rades.html

Any thoughts as to why new transmission is a state secret.

[SD67]

It's starting to sound alot like a new tank....

I bet it ends up with a new chassis

[tomuk]

British Army conducts tests to provide new transmission for Challenger 3 tank.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense ... rades.html

Any thoughts as to why new transmission is a state secret.

Well the obvious route would be to buy in a Renk unit but that would put people out of work at David Brown\Caterpillar.

[Ron5]

Jon Hawkes works for Jane's and is well qualified to talk on this subject. Keep reading the thread to get to the transmission details:

[tomuk]

Jon Hawkes works for Jane's and is well qualified to talk on this subject. Keep reading the thread to get to the transmission details:

I had read that at the time but it passed my mind.

So in summary there is no new transmission just a replacement torque converter. Necessary because the previous supplier has stopped making them due to lack of demand.

[sol]

Seems like Epsom was delivered and first trials might happen in February.

[sol]

Contract signed for Epsom modular armour

[Jackstar]

Contract signed for Epsom modular armour

Great news, the recapitilisation of British armour continues.

[sol]

[sol]

Another photo, but still waiting for some better ones

[mr.fred]

Another photo, but still waiting for some better ones

Now that looks like a new turret. Uglier compared to the prototype though.

[Jackstar]

CHALLENGER 3 PROGRAMME ACHIEVES ANOTHER MAJOR MILESTONE.

"A huge leap towards delivering the British Army’s next Main Battle Tank capability has been achieved with the first pre-production Challenger 3 going into trials in the coming weeks"

https://rbsl.com/news-and-events/news/c ... -milestone