You surgest we more numerous small vessel to control the littoral zone but surgest only 4 of these. Now if these are acting as a sea base then what type of “smaller” vessels will they laurnch and how ?Repulse wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023, 18:56I think we are all working out what is the role of the FCF, “global raiding” does seem to be one of the key requirements, but that isn’t the only role if they are to remain the UK’s Artic force assigned to NATO covering Norway and to a degree the coasts of the Baltic.
To perform the NATO role the FCF will need to be able to manoeuvre and control the Littoral region - this will be done in small groups. I see these ships more sea bases with option to land heavy stores / vehicles over the beach rather than they will always act as traditional landing craft. By having a larger number of dispersed vessels operating near shore it avoids the need for large vulnerable ships and task groups having to get close to shore.To my knowlage you do not need to undertake raiding ops in friendly controlled arrears, so if said op will be done where a threat is posed do we really want one of as you surgest only 4 amphib rolling up to the beach as a big ass target ???
From what I’ve read the USMC thinking around using this type of vessel is for them to be expendable to an extent if needed, if we went with your proposal we wouldn’t be able to use them in such a way but the risk to them would be as such.
To be safely operating OTH they need to be 100nm+ out - firstly I can’t see many conditions where an amphib would stop and flood its well dock that far out. Second any surface ship to shore connectors need to be larger and fast - forget LCUs and LCVPs.I also do not see what they offer over dock and LCU / LCVP set other than load size.
With the proliferation of shore based AShW any amphib op large or raiding will surely need to be done from OTH, this will by its nature will in-tale the need of a large dock and fast ship to shore connectors and organic fast aviation.
I personally think LSDs/LPDs is the wrong answer for LRG(N) which is tasked to defend NATOs flank. The need to get a task group close to shore and also the fact that FCF is not about Brigade or even Cdo level ops means we need more numerous smaller ships. The fact that we are operating in allied waters means they can be forward based - very different problem to rocking up the other side of the world and launching a raid. Also, if I understand correctly Norway has changed its position on having foreign troops based in its country which makes the way we did things in the past more so out of date.My proposal would be as I said up thread of 4 x LPD/LSD hybrid style vessel and 2 Karl Doorman’s forming LSG-N and LSG-S, each could operate up to -
14 medium helos/tilt rotors
4 to 8 fast LCU ( I’d evolve the PASCAT design ) depending on dock size chosen
10 fast LCVP / CB90
900 odd troops if larger scale ops are required.
With the right ship to shore connectors and aviation chosen this set up would offer the flexibility for raiding but also for larger ops if the doctorin changes, remember these vessels would be in service in to the 2060s so things have the time to change more than once over the time frame from design to build to end of life.
For me Global Raiding means at a low level Argus or its replacement, but anything larger is CEPP and the CVFs.
Acting as a sea base how are these any better than an LPD / LSD or any less vulnerable ?
The horizon as pointed out by others depends on from what hight above sea level it is take from so will depend on what the RN defernition is.
As for LCUs / LCVPs speed can be sorted as we’ve seen with the PASCAT design that is now getting on so could be progress and evolved further.
But I don’t think we should be rebuilding our entire amphib force focused solely on the Bulkans and it doesn’t seem like the RN are thinking this was since LSG-S