Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[SKB]

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/202 ... -of-wales/
https://eu.jacksonville.com/picture-gal ... 912269007/


(First Coast News) 21st September 2023

[serge750]

"24 in '24" seems to have slipped a year:

https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/170475 ... 01871?s=20

Still, will certainly be achievement when it happens.

[bobp]

Reception on PWLS

https://x.com/UKinFlorida/status/170497 ... 92792?s=20

[Turnturtle]

I do find it quite extraordinary to see a British capital ship such as HMS Prince of Wales cross the Atlantic and sail into a US port virtually unable to defend itself against attack. As far as I know she deployed with no fighter aircraft on board. Furthermore she is, I believe, the only modern aircraft carrier not equipped with a self defence missile system, not equipped with automatic cannon (even though 4 mounting baseplates exist), and not even equipped with Phalanx CIWS. In today's increasingly dangerous maritime environment (carrier-killer ballistic and hypersonic missiles, cruise missiles and aerial and small boat drones....probably in swarms) it seems folly to rely entirely on escort vessels - of which we have too few, and which by the RN's own admission lack lethality. This ship cost us a fortune to build and has hundreds of our sailors on board....and yet all she can defend herself with is a few machine guns! She seems to be such an advanced ship in every area apart from weaponry - I wonder what the Americans make of her armament! Perhaps the RN knows something which no other navy knows? Surely her unarmed state cannot simply be due to penny-pinching?

[new guy]

I do find it quite extraordinary to see a British capital ship such as HMS Prince of Wales cross the Atlantic and sail into a US port virtually unable to defend itself against attack. As far as I know she deployed with no fighter aircraft on board. Furthermore she is, I believe, the only modern aircraft carrier not equipped with a self defence missile system, not equipped with automatic cannon (even though 4 mounting baseplates exist), and not even equipped with Phalanx CIWS. In today's increasingly dangerous maritime environment (carrier-killer ballistic and hypersonic missiles, cruise missiles and aerial and small boat drones....probably in swarms) it seems folly to rely entirely on escort vessels - of which we have too few, and which by the RN's own admission lack lethality. This ship cost us a fortune to build and has hundreds of our sailors on board....and yet all she can defend herself with is a few machine guns! She seems to be such an advanced ship in every area apart from weaponry - I wonder what the Americans make of her armament! Perhaps the RN knows something which no other navy knows? Surely her unarmed state cannot simply be due to penny-pinching?

welcome to reality mate. Bit late to the party.

[tomuk]

I do find it quite extraordinary to see a British capital ship such as HMS Prince of Wales cross the Atlantic and sail into a US port virtually unable to defend itself against attack. As far as I know she deployed with no fighter aircraft on board. Furthermore she is, I believe, the only modern aircraft carrier not equipped with a self defence missile system, not equipped with automatic cannon (even though 4 mounting baseplates exist), and not even equipped with Phalanx CIWS. In today's increasingly dangerous maritime environment (carrier-killer ballistic and hypersonic missiles, cruise missiles and aerial and small boat drones....probably in swarms) it seems folly to rely entirely on escort vessels - of which we have too few, and which by the RN's own admission lack lethality. This ship cost us a fortune to build and has hundreds of our sailors on board....and yet all she can defend herself with is a few machine guns! She seems to be such an advanced ship in every area apart from weaponry - I wonder what the Americans make of her armament! Perhaps the RN knows something which no other navy knows? Surely her unarmed state cannot simply be due to penny-pinching?

Ok so where are all these likely hypersonic or drone attacks to originate from on a peacetime trials and evaluation cruise across the Atlantic to our major ally the US?

[Scimitar54]

Turturtle

Oh My! Now we have negative assertions of an Aircraft Carrier without Aircraft OR Missiles OR Guns!
Whatever next! ………….. Perhaps we should have delayed the F35B, MV22 Osprey and Drone Trials for yet another 12 months (until next autumn)! To provide time for capability re-insertion periods to re-fit the 3 x Phalanx. Please do bear in mind that these trials were scheduled to have been carried out last autumn (12 months ago), when she did have her Phalanx armament in place. I do believe however, that along with her 0.5” Heavy Machine Guns on the new increased accuracy mounts she is also carrying a number of Wildcats on this deployment, so she would not be toothless against at least some of your “suggested threats”.

Oh and by the way, it should also be mentioned that; At the height of the Cold War, HMS Ark Royal (R09) also crossed the Atlantic to Mayport (Florida) with no ship borne weapons, just her Air Wing and IIRC, escorted only by 1 x Leander class Frigate.

A sense of proportion is what is needed here!

[Scimitar54]

I do apologise, I appear to have missed out an “n”.

[SKB]

I wonder if an Astute went with her? Guess we'll never know.

[Scimitar54]

That would represent an Audacious decision.

[R686]

Turturtle

Oh My! Now we have negative assertions of an Aircraft Carrier without Aircraft OR Missiles OR Guns!
Whatever next! ………….. Perhaps we should have delayed the F35B, MV22 Osprey and Drone Trials for yet another 12 months (until next autumn)! To provide time for capability re-insertion periods to re-fit the 3 x Phalanx. Please do bear in mind that these trials were scheduled to have been carried out last autumn (12 months ago), when she did have her Phalanx armament in place. I do believe however, that along with her 0.5” Heavy Machine Guns on the new increased accuracy mounts she is also carrying a number of Wildcats on this deployment, so she would not be toothless against at least some of your “suggested threats”.

Oh and by the way, it should also be mentioned that; At the height of the Cold War, HMS Ark Royal (R09) also crossed the Atlantic to Mayport (Florida) with no ship borne weapons, just her Air Wing and IIRC, escorted only by 1 x Leander class Frigate.

A sense of proportion is what is needed here!

Not to sound callous, but you don’t need aircraft missiles or guns to sink ships in peacetime operations.

HMAS Melbourne (R21) did that twice in he career

But it does show why they need to regular train in peacetime even if it’s only basic seamanship

[Scimitar54]

Quite! A collision with a tanker (or a container ship) can achieve it, as events in recent years have shown. I guess it could be put down to the current trend to want to wrap everyone (and everything) in cotton wool. A very grave error in itself.

[Turnturtle]

All very interesting....but am still awaiting an explanation of why our carriers are unique in not having a missile and cannon defence.

[serge750]

Money - or lack of it ....... also as mentioned since the risk is tiny that she would need her CIWS back, why delay her SRVL trials trip anymore, when QE is on actual deplyment with f35 etc & is the 'on call' carrier, in a ideal world im sure things would be different as anticipated in the 90/2000's - the "Alpha" design along with the anticipated 36 x F35 + helo's would have built & operated, just like 13 T26 were planned but the RN are only getting 8 + 5 x t31, hope this helps to ansaw your question Turnturtle

[Poiuytrewq]

All very interesting....but am still awaiting an explanation of why our carriers are unique in not having a missile and cannon defence.

PWLS was escorted by USS Oscar Austin plus it’s highly likely that a SSN was accompanying.

What threat are you concerned about that such escort(s) couldn’t handle?

[serge750]

ps in one proposal i seem to remeber the QEC carriers having the radar & Viper missile system like the T45 but was omitted as it was huge electronic "bullseye" & to expensive a & overkill as on deployment the would be escouted by T45, not to mention the extra cost to man & maintain & potential FOD when fired...

[Ian Hall]

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com ... us_22.html

[shark bait]

More or less a love letter to the MOD.

While the Media does like to sensationalise, they're not totally wrong. The UK has been a Tier 1 partner of then F35 for nearly three decades but has committed to purchasing very few aircraft, is not integrating UK weapons, and has taken delivery of very few aircraft, all despite having two massive carriers in service.

The MOD has a remarkably half arsed commitment to the F35 and they should be called out for that!

[new guy]

Do feel free to correct me if I’m wrong shark bait, but I thought that the integration of UK weapons was dependent upon the delivery of F-35 block IV and that the UK was deliberately keeping F-35 deliveries to a minimum until block IV was available due to the huge cost of upgrading earlier versions to block IV.

[serge750]

Do feel free to correct me if I’m wrong shark bait, but I thought that the integration of UK weapons was dependent upon the delivery of F-35 block IV and that the UK was deliberately keeping F-35 deliveries to a minimum until block IV was available due to the huge cost of upgrading earlier versions to block IV.

Asraam and Paveway IV are already integrated.

They are in fact the only non-US weapons that have been integrated and are operational.

Asraam Block VI, Meteor, Paveway IV Penetrator and Spear will be integrated by 2027/28.

Apart from that there is only 1 other 'non-US' weapon being integrated. JSM. But even then thats joint Kongsberg of Norway AND Raytheon of the USA...the 'Joint' Turkish/US SOM minituare cruise missile has long stopped being mentioned. Little detail on any Israeli integration (which to be frank I doubt given their purchase of compatible US air weapons in recent years).

Whilst criticism of the pace of F-35 weapon integration is warranted, the idea that US weapons are being 'favoured' is not correct.

- 1 of the 3 air to air weapons is a UK missile (Asraam)
- Apart from the 3 A2A weapons there are no other powered weapons integrated yet.
- All Air to Surface munitions to date are unpowered.
- 1 of 5 Air to Surface munitions integrated to date is a UK weapon (Paveway IV). The others are JDAM series, SDB1, GBU-12 and JSOW. Given the demand from users this is unsurprising.

Given our very small numbers delivered to date (34) against a worldwide total of 965 to date....we're not doing bad

[bobp]

PWLS about to go back to sea ...

https://x.com/HMSPWLS/status/1706344837107126588?s=20

[Poiuytrewq]

Great stuff here!

[bobp]

https://x.com/HMSQNLZ/status/1706698714629145013?s=20


CV22 lands on QNLZ

[SKB]

From BobP's link ^




(@HMSQNLZ) 26th September 2023

[bobp]

Not to be outdone by her Sister PWLS has a cv22 also and at night.

https://x.com/HMSPWLS/status/1707048366805340297?s=20