Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[SD67]

I still think there is a case for a couple of more basic spec ships ( 24 CAMM + NSM + guns ) for patroling the med or gulf etc

Why not sell the two first of class around 2032?

Helps the drumbeat and maximises the outcome for RN.

Depends on how much the RN can realistically expect to sell them for.
I don't think RN has had good track record of realising good price for selling second hand ships.

So what have the RN sold second hand

Type 21 x 6
Type 22 x 7
Type 23 x 3
Castle Class OPV x 2
Island class OPV x 7
River class OPV x 1
Bay class x 1
Ocean
Fort 1's x 2
Hunt class x 6
Sandown class x 3

looks like a fairly good record to me

Plus Peacock class OPV?

[Bongodog]

So what have the RN sold second hand…

Sold or given away for the cost of a refit in a UK yard?

Some on the list were definitely surplus to requirements, some were sold as payback for a favour, some as you say for the cost of a refit, others though should never have been disposed of, the 4th Bay being an example.

[wargame_insomniac]

I still think there is a case for a couple of more basic spec ships ( 24 CAMM + NSM + guns ) for patroling the med or gulf etc

Why not sell the two first of class around 2032?

Helps the drumbeat and maximises the outcome for RN.

Depends on how much the RN can realistically expect to sell them for.
I don't think RN has had good track record of realising good price for selling second hand ships.

So what have the RN sold second hand

Type 21 x 6
Type 22 x 7
Type 23 x 3
Castle Class OPV x 2
Island class OPV x 7
River class OPV x 1
Bay class x 1
Ocean
Fort 1's x 2
Hunt class x 6
Sandown class x 3

looks like a fairly good record to me

My point was more whether the RN got sufficient money for them, not the number of ships sold.

[bobp]

The T31 is getting Torpedo defence kits....

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-awa ... ence-kits/

[bobp]

Work has started on the Polish A140 derivative....

[Tempest414]

I still think there is a case for a couple of more basic spec ships ( 24 CAMM + NSM + guns ) for patroling the med or gulf etc

Why not sell the two first of class around 2032?

Helps the drumbeat and maximises the outcome for RN.

Depends on how much the RN can realistically expect to sell them for.
I don't think RN has had good track record of realising good price for selling second hand ships.

So what have the RN sold second hand

Type 21 x 6
Type 22 x 7
Type 23 x 3
Castle Class OPV x 2
Island class OPV x 7
River class OPV x 1
Bay class x 1
Ocean
Fort 1's x 2
Hunt class x 6
Sandown class x 3

looks like a fairly good record to me

My point was more whether the RN got sufficient money for them, not the number of ships sold.

The point will not be the ship but the on going support contacts for the ships all of the above will be support at some level

[new guy]

I still think there is a case for a couple of more basic spec ships ( 24 CAMM + NSM + guns ) for patroling the med or gulf etc

Why not sell the two first of class around 2032?

Helps the drumbeat and maximises the outcome for RN.

Depends on how much the RN can realistically expect to sell them for.
I don't think RN has had good track record of realising good price for selling second hand ships.

So what have the RN sold second hand

Type 21 x 6
Type 22 x 7
Type 23 x 3
Castle Class OPV x 2
Island class OPV x 7
River class OPV x 1
Bay class x 1
Ocean
Fort 1's x 2
Hunt class x 6
Sandown class x 3

looks like a fairly good record to me

My point was more whether the RN got sufficient money for them, not the number of ships sold.

The point will not be the ship but the on going support contacts for the ships all of the above will be support at some level

Money going towards international contractors wages and babcock shareholders profits doesn't really benefit the UK.

[Poiuytrewq]

Money going towards international contractors wages and babcock shareholders profits doesn't really benefit the UK.

Are you serious?

[wargame_insomniac]

The T31 is getting Torpedo defence kits....

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-awa ... ence-kits/

So thats 3 more kits, on top of the initial 3 sets that UK Defence Journal posted that they had purchased in 2022. So it looks like they have purchased a spare kit?

[Tempest414]

The T31 is getting Torpedo defence kits....

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-awa ... ence-kits/

So thats 3 more kits, on top of the initial 3 sets that UK Defence Journal posted that they had purchased in 2022. So it looks like they have purchased a spare kit?

or one for the land based training unit

[SD67]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

Naval news reporting Poland are optioning another 5 T31s (!). And a JV has been formed with Babcock, pursuing future opportunities

[new guy]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

Naval news reporting Poland are optioning another 5 T31s (!). And a JV has been formed with Babcock, pursuing future opportunities

I already talk about this, it is probably all politics.

a) Why would they need 8 frigates? unless they go expeditionary...
b) They have never had more than 3 frigates
c) KEY POINT: Elections coming up in Poland. for a defence focused government, this is good advertising
d) more of this AH140 related politics can be seen with the fact that so far only 1 ship has been 'armed' per-say, and while I do thing
Poland will arm them by the timing of commissioning, this is key because it is easy for their politicians to point at the first of class and
go "look, powerful, 2 more on the way" ignoring the caveats.
e) options are cheap as chips, not even LOI.
f) The polish military budget has little (comparatively) spent on the navy compared to the air force and crucially the army, which makes sense because they are a Continental, basically Russian bordering state. They are on track to have the biggest army in the whole of NATO, par the Americans.

[serge750]

Interesting YouTube animation of the Bofors 57mm Mk3, appears the 220 rpm is theoretical, as it has only two 20 round ready service magazines that move with the gun barrel, then has to stop to reload its ready service magazines from the other two mount magazines which requires the gun barrel to elevate to its max elevation, reload and then return. Understand the mount magazines holds total of 120 rounds and time to reload 2 minutes, no mention if the below deck tounds can be transferred up while the gun is still in the process of firing or the max number of rounds it can fire before barrel overheats and has to stop to cool off.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Interesting YouTube animation of the Bofors 57mm Mk3, appears the 220 rpm is theoretical, as it has only two 20 round ready service magazines that move with the gun barrel, then has to stop to reload its ready service magazines from the other two mount magazines which requires the gun barrel to elevate to its max elevation, reload and then return. Understand the mount magazines holds total of 120 rounds and time to reload 2 minutes, no mention if the below deck tounds can be transferred up while the gun is still in the process of firing or the max number of rounds it can fire before barrel overheats and has to stop to cool off.

Thanks. For reload I checked the web. The “20 shells reload” looks like taking only 2.6s. (2 minutes will be for 120 rounds reload from below ammo stock, I guess?)

At least for 40 mm 3P rounds (not sure about 57mm), the basic anti ASM action is “10 roundburst”. Of corse, with guided rounds like ALaMo and (possible) MADFIRES, the shot will be single or two.

Figure of merit of the 57mm is in its capability to fire such guided rounds in number. At least, ALaMo is not so expensive, and already in mass production in USN.

[NickC]

Interesting YouTube animation of the Bofors 57mm Mk3, appears the 220 rpm is theoretical, as it has only two 20 round ready service magazines that move with the gun barrel, then has to stop to reload its ready service magazines from the other two mount magazines which requires the gun barrel to elevate to its max elevation, reload and then return. Understand the mount magazines holds total of 120 rounds and time to reload 2 minutes, no mention if the below deck tounds can be transferred up while the gun is still in the process of firing or the max number of rounds it can fire before barrel overheats and has to stop to cool off.

Thanks. For reload I checked the web. The “20 shells reload” looks like taking only 2.6s. (2 minutes will be for 120 rounds reload from below ammo stock, I guess?)

At least for 40 mm 3P rounds (not sure about 57mm), the basic anti ASM action is “10 roundburst”. Of corse, with guided rounds like ALaMo and (possible) MADFIRES, the shot will be single or two.

Figure of merit of the 57mm is in its capability to fire such guided rounds in number. At least, ALaMo is not so expensive, and already in mass production in USN.

The Mad-Fires 57mm round was planned to be able to alter flight path in real time to stay on target with a capacity to continuously target, track and engage multiple fast-approaching air targets simultaneously and re-engage any targets that survive initial engagement. The DARPA Raytheon contract for $51 million was due to complete May 2020, in September 2020 DARPA awarded Raytheon an additional Phase III contract of $32.5 million which was due to complete in November 2022, do you have any more up to date info as its gone very quiet.

[Poiuytrewq]

More progress.

[Jackstar]

[Ian Hall]

[Tempest414]

So it is confirmed type 31 will get Mk-41

[dmereifield]

So it is confirmed type 31 will get Mk-41

Still all sounds a bit woolly to me. "Can be fitted" in a later capability insertion period. Can or will? How many will get them (and how many will they get and what will go in them?)? When will they get them?

With the T31s not getting NSM, will they be without ASM (and empty MK. 41s) for a decade until the future anti ship missile (possibly) turns up?

[Poiuytrewq]

Still all sounds a bit woolly to me. "Can be fitted" in a later capability insertion period. Can or will? How many will get them (and how many will they get and what will go in them?)? When will they get them?

Thats the way I read it too.

How hard is for the RN press office to say the T31 is getting X Mk41 cells and they will be fitted at this point.

It’s really not difficult unless you want to make it as obscure as possible if which case the PR dept is doing a great job.

[bobp]

Nothing clear about NSM being fitted in the future...

[Tempest414]

So in the first part of the statement from Rear Adm Parkin the RN will be fitting Mk-41 VLS to type 31 in the second part he then quite rightly said that to maintain the build schedule they could be fitted during the subsequent capability insertion periods

These CI periods are meant to take place after delivery the way I read it is the RN are leaving the door open to maybe getting the first ships deployed without and then fit the Mk-41's in the second CI period

Maybe they will fill in the gaps at DSEI 23

[new guy]

So in the first part of the statement from Rear Adm Parkin the RN will be fitting Mk-41 VLS to type 31 in the second part he then quite rightly said that to maintain the build schedule they could be fitted during the subsequent capability insertion periods

These CI periods are meant to take place after delivery the way I read it is the RN are leaving the door open to maybe getting the first ships deployed without and then fit the Mk-41's in the second CI period

Maybe they will fill in the gaps at DSEI 23

probably.

[RichardIC]

Still all sounds a bit woolly to me. "Can be fitted" in a later capability insertion period. Can or will? How many will get them (and how many will they get and what will go in them?)? When will they get them?

Thats the way I read it too.

How hard is for the RN press office to say the T31 is getting X Mk41 cells and they will be fitted at this point.

It’s really not difficult unless you want to make it as obscure as possible if which case the PR dept is doing a great job.

They can't say because they don't know. There isn't a fully fleshed-out and costed plan yet.

So in the first part of the statement from Rear Adm Parkin the RN will be fitting Mk-41 VLS to type 31 in the second part he then quite rightly said that to maintain the build schedule they could be fitted during the subsequent capability insertion periods

These CI periods are meant to take place after delivery the way I read it is the RN are leaving the door open to maybe getting the first ships deployed without and then fit the Mk-41's in the second CI period

Maybe they will fill in the gaps at DSEI 23

At no point does he say with certainty that they will be fitted. We all know they can be. We're still very much in FFBNW territory.

Last serious news was an assessment phase "exploring options and costs".

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/nava ... mk-41-vls/