Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

[Gabriele]

My bad. I thought it was just a typo and assumed it was for personnel involved in a work-up period in the US.

[jimthelad]

Jo's is still there and definitely worth a visit! The only thing that compares is Clatty's/Viper in Glasgow: if you can't get laid in either then you really are troubled!!

[Jdam]

If we are getting some P-8's soon is there any point of getting some air launched Harpoons, would it just be a wasted investment or is it something we don't need right now?

[RichardIC]

There are probably a million things that are higher priority right now. Certainly, as far as P-8 is concerned, a torpedo.

To be honest I'd be quite happy to go with the Mk54, at least as an interim measure, although I suspect the our Poseidon may be unarmed initially.

[shark bait]

To be honest I'd be quite happy to go with the Mk54, at least as an interim measure.

That would be more than acceptable, the focus needs to be on a quick and affordable entry into service.

I would like to think that integrating sting ray shouldn't be too difficult. The MK54 is getting an add-on wing kit complete with guidance computer that is completely independent of the torpedo, surely that could be reused and bolted onto the sting ray with minimal effort, they are a standard size aren't they?

[S M H]

Integration of stingray should be reasonable but B.A.E. provide the mission system . upgraded from what was for Nimrods if Boeing can get it integrated at reasonable cost. It should be done as we would have a SINGLE anti sub torpedo in service with one support train. Using the MK 54 as a stopgap on leased or loaned airframes makes sense as does crews using U.S. flight clothing as per the initial C17 setup. A pressing requirement is our lack of U.K. air to air refuelling considering the amount of aircraft in the inventory we now have that cannot be refuelled by the R.A.F tanker aircraft! The other question is in respect of the M.A.D. drone or do we follow the Indians with the M.A.D. tail fit?

[RichardIC]

B.A.E. provide the mission system . upgraded from what was for Nimrods if Boeing can get it integrated at reasonable cost

Please not this again. Nimrod was bulldozed in 2010. It's gone, forget it and move on.

A pressing requirement is our lack of U.K. air to air refuelling considering the amount of aircraft in the inventory we now have that cannot be refuelled by the R.A.F tanker aircraft

Absolutely

The other question is in respect of the M.A.D. drone or do we follow the Indians with the M.A.D. tail fit?

No. Stick with USN and Australian spec to take advantage of the same upgrade path.

I honestly don't know whether India is getting their own hybrid P-8 because the US won't sell them elements of their own systems for security reasons. Or is it because of the "build in India" philosophy. Either way, leave well alone. Hybrids are bad.

[ArmChairCivvy]

because the US won't sell them elements of their own systems for security reasons. Or is it because of the "build in India" philosophy

The first one is possible, but the third one (likely to be the determining factor) is that the overall system is built around the MAD method, and the fact that US planes will be substituted for the older ones sourced from Russia won't change that (could be changed, but at what cost?).

[xav]

I doubt this piece of kit can be exported but:

U.S. Navy Continues Flight Testing APS-154 Advanced Airborne Sensor (AAS) on P-8A Poseidon

The U.S. Navy continues integration and testing of the first Advanced Airborne Sensor (AAS), designated the APS-154, aboard the P-8A Poseidon. Testing will confirm the ability of the P-8A and AAS to operate safely and efficiently. Successful testing of AAS on the P-8A is a significant milestone enabling production decisions and leading up to the initial deployment of AAS.
...
AAS is an externally mounted radar and a follow-on system to the currently deployed Littoral Surveillance Radar System (LSRS). LSRS currently provides a broad range of capabilities against moving and stationary targets at sea and on land. LSRS is currently operational on U.S. Navy P-3C Orions. According to Raytheon, the AAS is an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system with next-generation line-of-site capability.

Like LSRS, AAS is an integrated Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance and Targeting (ISR&T) asset, with the additional capability of Mast and Periscope Detection (MPD).

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3422

[shark bait]

I don't see why it wouldn't be ordered to the UK. The MOD isn't a standard customer after all.

[Ianmb17]

I think sentinel is only being extended till this this is available on P8

[ArmChairCivvy]

I think sentinel is only being extended till this this is available on P8

Yep, but that is quite an extension as they "should" be gone by now, and that will make it something like 2022 (and that would then also be the time to order more units?)

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

I don't see why it wouldn't be ordered to the UK. The MOD isn't a standard customer after all.

Indeed, this is one bit of kit that i feel reasonably confident that the UK would find itself on any exemptions list for if the US decided to restrict exports of the system. Not only do we have particularly close defence ties (combined with a proven track record in defence R&D and a solid reputation for the protection of intellectual property) the US has, in the recent past, been extremely keen to make use of our own considerable ISTAR capabilities so i doubt would deny us the chance to expand on that further - it'd be in their interest.

If it were any other nation apart from the UK i'd be inclined to agree with the naysayers.

[marktigger]

so have we got a firm in service date or is it 2020 as is being speculated in the media?

[Tinman]

so have we got a firm in service date or is it 2020 as is being speculated in the media?

It will be before that.

[Ianmb17]

[quote="ArmChairCivvy"]Yep but that is quite an extension as they "should" be gone by now, and that will make it something like 2022 (and that would then also be the time to order more units?)

Raytheon reckon 2022 for AAS and Sentinal will be relevant till then

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ts-416872/


Sample picture from Sentinel Floods 2014 released by MOD

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi ... 157030.jpg

[ArmChairCivvy]

Yep, but that is quite an extension as they "should" be gone by now, and that will make it something like 2022

Yep, we have the same sources. By then the operational taskings will have returned a lot of experience, to determine what size of fleet would be needed to cover the wider brief.
- cost per hour might still be a thorny issue, as the P8 is huge compared to a Sentinel

[S M H]

The M.O.D. could be hedging its bets with keeping Sentinel (whole system)till at least 2022. If the M.O.D. could procure the servalance radar for its P8A with three additional airframes to cover the extended ops requirement.(I doubt the Mandarins or the political masters at the Treasury would allow 5.) . Sentinel aircraft could go with no loss of capability. If the U.S.A.F. Jstars replacement turns out to be the Lockheed proposed system they could keep Sentinel system. If the higher running cost of the extra P8A are not favourable compared to the retention of the Sentinel Aircraft and two support chains.

[shark bait]

cost per hour might still be a thorny issue, as the P8 is huge compared to a Sentinel

Could be an issue, or that cost could be offset by saving from the removal of a fleet.

[The Armchair Soldier]

First P-8 operational by 2019 according to Philip Dunne:

[bobp]

Good news that the official request has been made. No doubt we will have good use of one or two in the meantime under project seedcorn.

[shark bait]

876 days til 617 Sqn Lightnings arrive in UK.
1096 days til RAF's P8's arrive in UK.

Exciting times ahead.

[ArmChairCivvy]

1096 days til RAF's P8's arrive in UK

A thousand days when you have the crew ready and in the interim could sub-contract airframe/ engine maintenance to a civilian contractor?

[shark bait]

well I think we are expecting to see USN P8's in the UK sooner than a thousand days.

[Engaging Strategy]

876 days til 617 Sqn Lightnings arrive in UK.

Still no sign of Admiral West's elusive "Sea Lightning" though