F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[shark bait]

Oh yeah, the UK has got a disproportionate amount of work. For ~4.5%* of the aircraft bought the UK contributes 15% of the value of the aircraft. It'd be interesting how the rear-fuselage situation would work if BAE lost worshare because (AFAIK) they're the only supplier so you couldn't just ramp up elsewhere.

It is a fantastic deal for UK industry.

I worked out, with some admittedly very woolly maths, the UK could fund 48 F35's just on the tax revenues from the share of the Americans work that passes through the UK

[Defiance]

It is a fantastic deal for UK industry.

I worked out, with some admittedly very woolly maths, the UK could fund 48 F35's just on the tax revenues from the share of the Americans work that passes through the UK

The number I've seen thrown around is £1billion per production year into the Treasury I think.

[bobp]

So if the uk is to have 24 F35B available as per the recent SDSR, then when are they actually going to order them, or make advance purchases of parts. All I have seen is the order for 14 spread over several years.

[S M H]

At £1billon year with a planned build up over years minus the work share makes the F35 manageable in procurement costs terms to the bean counters in the treasury. If George can keep his axe sheathed it makes our 138 airframes procurement a good deal.

[Gabriele]

So if the uk is to have 24 F35B available as per the recent SDSR, then when are they actually going to order them, or make advance purchases of parts. All I have seen is the order for 14 spread over several years.

The UK has 17 on order / pre-order / delivered, with 4 in LRIP 8, 6 in LRIP 9 and 3 in LRIP 10. In order to have 42 by 2023, including 24 "operational" in the two squadrons, they must order 25 aircraft spread over the lots 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, which equate to the years 2017, 18, 19, 20, 21. The aircraft are delivered around 2 years after being ordered, so 2021 is the last useful year for ordering aircraft which have to be delivered in 2023.

5 aircraft per year on average does not seem much of a challenge, and there is plenty of time to act. The very first long-lead contract for Lot 11 has been announced by the Pentagon yesterday. It includes a single F-35B for the UK, at this stage, but i wouldn't worry as it is still only an early placeholder: the USAF request itself is just for 28 A, which is far less than they will can be expected to buy in lot 11 (Lot 10 includes 47 USAF F-35A, after all).

Interestingly, even with the USAF pre-order capped at 28, the deal already covers for a healthy total of 80 F-35A: 52 of those are for foreign customers, from Japan to Australia, passing by Israel and South Korea and the Netherlands.

There is also the non trivial matter of defining the "Block Buy" initiative. If the Pentagon can obtain a go ahead from Congress, the idea is to place mega-deal orders grouping together Lot 11, 12 and 13. In a contract presolicitation relating to the Block Buy, the US services alone spelled out a purchase profile of:

Lot 11
- 108 F-35A
- 17 F-35B
- 4 F-35C

Lot 12
- 138
- 26
- 8

Lot 13
- 140
- 26
- 10

Add the other customers in and, if it were to materialize, the numbers of this deal would be really big. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity ... e&_cview=1

[ArmChairCivvy]

Lot 11
- 108 F-35A
- 17 F-35B
- 4 F-35C

Lot 12
- 138
- 26
- 8

Lot 13
- 140
- 26
- 10

I sure am happier to ride on the back of the "B" quantities projected, rather than the minute "C"s

[Gabriele]

Even the C build up could become considerably faster if the Navy submits to Carter's directive, which is to cut LCS procurement to invest more into other areas, including purchasing 31 more F-35C over the next few years.
The Navy, on the other hand, has so far preferred to defer aircraft procurement (not just F-35C, but mostly) to fund shipbuilding.

[Tony Williams]

The Navy, on the other hand, has so far preferred to defer aircraft procurement (not just F-35C, but mostly) to fund shipbuilding.

They seem to be in no hurry to acquire the F-35C as they are still ordering F/A-18s.

[Gabriele]

The Navy, on the other hand, has so far preferred to defer aircraft procurement (not just F-35C, but mostly) to fund shipbuilding.

They seem to be in no hurry to acquire the F-35C as they are still ordering F/A-18s.

It isn't really the Navy that is procuring hornets, but rather Congress, which has added some. The budget request of the Navy has 0 at the Super Hornet voice. It is congress that is adding 5, plus 7 extra Growlers. The Navy does not complain, of course... the Super Hornet is already mature and can more readily be put to work. And considering that the USN has already a deficit equating to two squadrons, it is not like they don't need it.

The USN has also slightly cut back on Poseidon purchases and was about to slow down E-2D Hawkeye and Triton purchases. Carter has stepped in and directed them to cut LCS instead.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The USN has also slightly cut back on Poseidon purchases and was about to slow down E-2D Hawkeye and Triton purchases. Carter has stepped in and directed them to cut LCS instead

Interesting, would that be further down, from the 32 (my recollection of the reduced plan, in favour of starting the frigate purchase, which is a different question from planes vs. ships)?

[Gabriele]

The USN has also slightly cut back on Poseidon purchases and was about to slow down E-2D Hawkeye and Triton purchases. Carter has stepped in and directed them to cut LCS instead

Interesting, would that be further down, from the 32 (my recollection of the reduced plan, in favour of starting the frigate purchase, which is a different question from planes vs. ships)?

The cut includes the "frigate" development. From 52 to 40 ships.

[shark bait]

Good news. do we think they have finally got on top of the programme?

[seaspear]

Another benchmark would be unit cost , and if still declining

[Geoff_B]

Good news. do we think they have finally got on top of the programme?

To put it simply NO

Wait for the next GAO annual audit report on the programme as that gives you the proper rundown on the goals achieved, the problems resolved, the issues outstanding, the new issues found and the areas of concern with the upcoming testing. Its the only real honest report without the spin-doctored BS from either the LM PR machine or the doom mongers.

It will be interesting to see whats happening with the F-35B bulkhead issue, Lt Gen Bogdan said in March it was now his biggest concern, as the attempts to fix or patch the part had been unsuccessful so far and they were back to the drawing board so hopefully there will be news that they now have a new solution in the works (which does take a couple of years to design, test, evaluate and bring into production ! ). They can't ramp up production of the F-35B till its resolved and monitoring the current weak part will impact servicability and availability until its its resolved.

[Ron5]

The nose of the leading f-35 in the twitter pic looks a bit odd to me, is it bad artwork or what?

[Jdam]

The nose of the leading f-35 in the twitter pic looks a bit odd to me, is it bad artwork or what?

Looks like they have photo shopped out the aerial that is in the noise of test F-35's.

[Ron5]

Thanks. It does look odd.

[arfah]

................ ...

[WhiteWhale]

Sounds like a number of fixes are already well under way plus 75kg isn't that high of a weight, it's quite a lot under the average male weight although that number is probably over-inflated by the ever increasing obese types.

[Gabriele]

So far, only one pilot in all has been affected by the limitations to weight.

[shark bait]

Do you think the US Air Force would accept my low cost solution?

[Little J]

Didn't think the "average" American suffered from being under-weight

[Jdam]

Any news yet on the block 4 software? I dont think we have heard anythig since summer of last year.

[bobp]

With regards to the software one of the problems its complexity, and the hours and hours of testing to make sure it works and is safe.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /78864118/

Seems to have been some significant progress made in terms of reducing engine unit prices across all three variants. Importantly for the UK, the B variant saw the greatest level of savings made - a reduction of 6.4% no less.


Also, the JPO is trying to accelerate the timetable for a permanent fix to the ejection seat/pilot weight issue. It is hoped that a solution can now be implemented by Oct. 2017, a year earlier than had been previously declared: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /78845102/