Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (1998-2018) (ex RN)

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R686
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by R686 »

shark bait wrote: I would like to hope money can be found to give us a proper ocean replacement in the mid 20's, which would actually be replacing the Albion's with a more modern and capable design. In the near term there is zero chance of seeing an ocean type vessel in the Royal Navy beyond 2018.

Something like the Canberra that is F35 capable would be of great utility. However having 2 cheaper F35 capable carriers would make me worry about the safety of the proper carriers.
True the capabilty will be usefull, but looking long term hopefully we will see F35 kicking from 2020 with the first batch likely to see an out of service date of around 2045-50, depending on when the last F35 enters service with the UK and the last F35B is built it may not be feasable to build more STOVL fast jets with the USAF and USN might be on to the next 6th gen fighter to replace Rhino and F22/35A in that time frame.

If that is the case the UK may not have an option of converting the CV to cat& trap and if the UK do end up with 138 F35B's hopefully the last 24 will go bow out around 2055-60, this would give long term planning a platform for which keep the B's in an active role for the RN.

With the Albions with an out of service date of around 2040 project planning will need to begin by 2025 with an in service date of around 2035 that gives an out of service date for the LHD of around 2060-65. These LHD will give the UKDF a limited at sea capabilty whist the CV are converted with the 6th gen aircraft operating off the converted QE and perhaps there replacement ( fingers crossed and I doubt i'll be around to see it happen)


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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

arfah wrote:Any UK coastal cities needing a heliport..?
Hmm, in China they make them into casinos
- a casino, with a heliport... not a bad idea
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by arfah »

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Pseudo »

arfah wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote:
arfah wrote:Any UK coastal cities needing a heliport..?
Hmm, in China they make them into casinos
- a casino, with a heliport... not a bad idea
and 12x SU.33's
I suppose that's one way to deter card counters.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Heh-he, going a bit off-topic here, but no one seems to have registered the real reason why SU-33 never made it (was replaced by Mig-29 as soon as the Indians doled out the cash to do the carrier conversion): It was too heavy to carry any weapons!

"made its maiden flight in 1987, but the official introduction to the Russian Navy was only in 1998. It seems that production was stopped in 1997.

Production of this aircraft goes slowly. The reason is a high cost and the fact that this Su-33 is carrier-based aircraft. Currently Russian Naval Aviation operates around 24 of these carrier-based aircraft. Considering that Russia has only one aircraft carrier, this quantity seems to be more than enough. Also recently Russian Navy ordered a regiment of shipborne version of the Mikoyan MiG-29 multi-role fighter. It appears that the Russian Navy prefers the lighter MiG-29K to the Su-33 due to its lower price and lower servicing costs"
from:http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/su_33.htm
... and neither India or China bought it, in the end.., though with their cutting-edge materilas science the Chinese could surely lighten it a tad
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Jdam
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Jdam »

When was the original out of service date for Ocean?

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shark bait
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Jdam wrote:When was the original out of service date for Ocean?
2018

Don't remember if that's the official number , or just the one accepted within out circles. Either way it has long been expected and is a nessesary and reasonable trade off for the carriers
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by arfah »

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by bobp »

Shame about HMS Ocean hasn't she just had a bit of refurbishment?

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shark bait
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

bobp wrote:Shame about HMS Ocean hasn't she just had a bit of refurbishment?
Yep. A Computer upgrade. She'll still be around for a few years yet
arfah wrote:Unreasonable trade off.

Our ARG now consists of 2/3 bays and HMS Bulwark.
Difference of oppinion, but there is a price to pay for having a very strong carrier strike, something has to go.
Amphibious capabilities will no doubt take a hit with the loss of ocean, whilst we hold our breath for a suitable replacement.

I guess there was a choice between the Albion's and Ocean. Whilst the Albion's aviation facilities are not fit for purpose any more, they do contribute the majority of our well deck capacity.

Do we think the points, the bays and ocean could do the amphib job?
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SKB
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Sorry to say that HMS Ocean was omitted from the future fleet list following the 2015 SDSR. :cry:

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by bobp »

From the BBC Politics daily feed.

The Royal Navy's largest vessel and flagship is to be scrapped in just three years' time the government admitted today - despite making no mention of it in yesterday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.

Ocean, which has only recently undergone a £65m refit, will now be removed from service in 2018. The Ministry of Defence today insisted this had been known for some time - but was unable to say when it had previously been announced.

An MoD spokesman said: "Just because we don't make a song and dance about it in the media doesn't mean we haven't planned it".

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Old RN
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Old RN »

Is this not a function of crew numbers. In 2018 PoW will be needing its crew, about the same number as Ocean will release?

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Gabriele
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Gabriele »

We have known for ages that HMS Ocean would go.

The general public and the media would have known as well, if the MOD communication strategy wasn't made of fudges, words not said, half-truths and an astounding poverty of detail.

Compare the SDSR with the french military law and the US own planning documents to see the amazing difference. One produces more questions and doubts than answers. Guess which one...?
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S M H
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by S M H »

Having seen Oceans hull construction compared to the Invincible's hull at Barrow during fitting out. The ship commercial hull is its hercules heal along with some of the commercial fixtures and fitting on board. The retention would come with some hefty refit bills. As the commercial fittings get older. In an ideal world we could keep her in reserve but the navy has long stopped mothballing vessels. So she will go. Her replacement capability will no doubt come with the L.P.D replacement with a L.H.D. in the early 2030s.

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SKB
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Front page HMS Ocean introduction updated and expanded. ;)

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xav
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by xav »

Stunning

Image

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Gabriele wrote:The general public and the media would have known as well, if the MOD communication strategy wasn't made of fudges, words not said, half-truths and an astounding poverty of detail.

Compare the SDSR with the french military law and the US own planning documents to see the amazing difference. One produces more questions and doubts than answers. Guess which one...?
Been saying that for a long time, but as one can not do a "thumb up" here, will need to repeat it
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Pymes75
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Pymes75 »

Cheers Xav! She does look great with an Osprey and a couple of Merlins on the flight line...

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SKB
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by SKB »

HMS Ocean returned to Devonport last night, delayed by bad weather.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Picture ... story.html

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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

I would have kept Ocean as a PCRS replacement for Argus, but that is now gone.

I hope that the future MARS FSS will have enhanced aviation and medical facilities. Though I would also like to see an Albion replacement late 2020s that would help fill the gap left. Having said that I wouldn't go for the classic 20-30k ton LHD, but more (say 4) smaller LPDs along the lines of a slightly extended / updated San Giusto class.
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shark bait
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Repulse wrote:I would have kept Ocean as a PCRS replacement for Argus, but that is now gone.
I am fine with ocean being scrapped. By 2018, she will have served the 20 years she was design to do, and has done a good job in the process. Trying to shoe horn her into another role seems like it will be an expensive and unnecessary task.

I personally think an argus replacement would be better off being a seperate training and development ship, like the French use, and then a real hospital ship.
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Re: Ocean Class Helicopter Carrier (LPH) (RN)

Post by WhiteWhale »

The question is now that she has reached the end of a moderately limited lifespan, was a commercial build ship a success in this field? I feel that getting a replacement by 2035 will depend on that answer.

If yes and 20 years was a decent innings for it's price then we will probably get the same again once the T26's have finished production. If no... then, expect one of the CVF's to play LPH for a long time yet.

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