Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[shark bait]

If its true, and those 2 ships are ships are ocean and Albion, then its no real change.
If its true, and those 2 ships are ships are frigates, that is totally unacceptable. We are teetering on the edge of frigate availability, and simply cant afford to loose another, really we should be wanting more.

[Gabriele]

I might be wrong, but i don't believe there will be any ship lost, not in the short term as a "new cut". HMS Ocean, of course, in a few years will go. The government, beginning with the Chancellor himself, has exposed itself in plain light by promising no more Royal Navy reductions.

As for the watering down of Type 26 procurement, it might "just" refer to the breakdown in batches of 3, 5 and 5. Which is unfortunate, but not in any way a new thing at this point. We've known for a while.

On the other side, i do not think the SDSR will make any mention of 138 F-35. I expect it to be quite vague on the F-35 front, with the excuse that Main Gate 5 is in 2017 and that's when decisions will be made. I'll be surprised if there is any statement on the final numbers, and the surprise will be double if the numbers is 138.

Anyway, if you don't know how to spend your SDSR waiting time, my previsions and analysis is here: http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot ... r-day.html

And tomorrow, hopefully, we'll know some more. But i expect that in many areas we will be left with more questions than answers.

[Digger22]

I would imagine that there will be no definitive number announced in the SDSR, just a commitment to the first T26 batch, as previously suggested. Any reduction below 19 hulls would simply not be enough, and you would like to think that if a proper T26 procurement strategy is employed, and by not replacing the first two or three T23, we could end up with a 22 strong Frigate/Destroyer fleet. You would hope that the 2% GDP commitment would equal this size of escort fleet at least?.

[shark bait]

I would imagine that there will be no definitive number announced in the SDSR, just a commitment to the first T26 batch, as previously suggested. Any reduction below 19 hulls would simply not be enough, and you would like to think that if a proper T26 procurement strategy is employed, and by not replacing the first two or three T23, we could end up with a 22 strong Frigate/Destroyer fleet. You would hope that the 2% GDP commitment would equal this size of escort fleet at least?.

22 is what we should have in my opinion

2 escorts for QE
2 escorts for PW or amphib
1 APT(s)
1 East of suez
1 NATO Maritime Group 1
1 Towed Array Patrol Ship
1 Operation Kipion / Response / High readiness / Joint Exercises

So that is 9 escorts needed. Operated as a 5 to 2 ratio, which should be possible with newer ships requiring less time in refits, and modern training. That gives me 22.5 escorts so I would say we need 22 or 23 depending how often we need one in reserve.

Whilst whatever number tomorrow will confirm will be meaningless, if it confirms the build rate that will be very interesting and will strongly indicated the final number.

[Lugzy]

I wasn't really sure if to post here or in the type 23 thread but considering both are linked in my question I thought here seemed as good as a place as any,

I've been thinking about this for a while and was wondering , considering that the green light is rumoured to be given early next year for the first batch of our type 26 frigates , with possibly first Steel being cut later 2016 early 2017 , does that signal the first of our type 23s being retired soon so the process of removing of equipment can begin ????

Also considering the first type 26 being predicted to be in service in 2022 Surely this would mean the loss of at least 3 type 23s from the available escort fleet between 2016-2022 ???

[shark bait]

does that signal the first of our type 23s being retired soon so the process of removing of equipment can begin ????

No, I believe some brand new units have been ordered for the first few ships to avoid this.

[Lugzy]

does that signal the first of our type 23s being retired soon so the process of removing of equipment can begin ????

No, I believe some brand new units have been ordered for the first few ships to avoid this.

That sounds very sensible I'm amazed tbh this situation did seem the perfect opportunity for the gov to do some sneaky cuts , but anyway that answers that , cheers for the info SB

[Geoff_B]

Sky reporting the Type 26 order cut vack from 13 to 8 initially to fund more of the immediate spending, so i suspect they will draw out the procurement over a longer period along with possibly an increase in Manpower thats needed in 2020 or 2025 SDSRs

[The Armchair Soldier]

Sky reporting the Type 26 order cut vack from 13 to 8 initially to fund more of the immediate spending, so i suspect they will draw out the procurement over a longer period along with possibly an increase in Manpower thats needed in 2020 or 2025 SDSRs

I saw that report, too - 8 Type 26, alongside 136 F-35s and 9 P-8.

Edit: Here it is:

[Gabriele]

A few considerations. Mind you, i might be wrong, but:

138 F-35. I don't believe it. They made no promises on the long term target in the past. Besides, most of those would be ordered outside of this parliament, from 2022 and onwards. Is this government really willing to put a number on the long term committment? It could, as anyway it would be paying, in this parliament, for no more than 48. But if they win the next election, then they have to deal with their own promise.

8 Type 26. Similar, yet different situation to F-35. They promised to continue planning for 13 and no new cuts to the Navy. Most of the Type 26, with the current schedule, are due to be funded and built well after this parliament ends, with the last ships coming in service in the 2030s.
Why would they want to break the long-term promise now...? The savings would not materialize before over a decade, but the political impact, and the gain for the SNP, would be immediate. Can't see it happening. It would be very stupid indeed.
I think they will reaffirm the long term target for 13 and put in actual orders for between 3 and 8. Perhaps 8, since this is the number making the rounds.

Until days ago, we were looking at three batches of 3, 5 and 5, with only 3 to be ordered in this parliament. Ordering 8 would actually be good news. I can't see them closing the door to the remaining 5 at this stage. Also because it would only mean savings if the construction of the ships is kicked back by several years. If they cut the last 5, they will not reap any saving now. Can they afford to face the SNP and saying "we are not building anything in the next few years"? I think not.

I think there's a misunderstanding in the Media about F-35 and Type 26. I'm more inclined to believe to 13 Type 26 than to 138 F-35.

[SKB]

I had a feeling it would be just 8. I voted 8 in the poll too.

[CarrierFan2006]

8 will be the first tranche. Cutting down to 14 escorts for 2 carriers and all the other global commitments would be suicidal.

[shark bait]

Confirming 16 would be a pointless exercise. They will be spending the money of the next 2 governments, so it is a meaningless number as we know how fickle governemts are.

What will be an indication of final numbers will be the build rate. My gut feeling is 13 are safe, any less and they can't sustain the carriers which are the pride and joy of the government right now.

[SDL]

8 T26s and "at least" 5 lighter frigates. 13 in total, but split between the two classes.

[SKB]

So. At least i guessed 8 T26's correctly... I may as well end that poll now...

[Cooper]

So. At least i guessed 8 T26's correctly... I may as well end that poll now...

They're only going to be T26's with some of the extras taken out...and if that means more than 13 then its good news.

[GibMariner]

So. At least i guessed 8 T26's correctly... I may as well end that poll now...

They're only going to be T26's with some of the extras taken out...and if that means more than 13 then its good news.

No, they're not

We will maintain one of the most capable anti-submarine
fleets in the world with the introduction of eight advanced Type 26 Global Combat
Ships, which will start to replace our current Type 23 frigates in their anti-submarine
role. We will maintain our fleet of 19 frigates and destroyers. We will also launch
a concept study and then design and build a new class of lighter, flexible general
purpose frigates so that by the 2030s we can further increase the total number
of frigates and destroyers. These general purpose frigates are also likely to offer
increased export potential. We will buy two further new Offshore Patrol Vessels,
increasing the Royal Navy’s ability to defend UK interests at home and abroad.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... b_only.pdf

[Cooper]

No, they're not

If you think they won't be based mainly on T26 hulls, then you're in la-la land.

[GibMariner]

If you think they won't be based mainly on T26 hulls, then you're in la-la land.

I agree with you that it would be logical for them to be based on the T26 hull, but that doesn't seem to be what the actual wording in the review is suggesting. However it is all pure speculation at the moment and it may be some time until there are clear answers.

[SKB]

T26 poll thread deleted. Congrats to the 7 of us who predicted 8 T26's. Sadly.

[Digger22]

Sounds like a clear commitment to keep 19 frigate/destroyer fleet PLUS these lighter ships, NOT instead of, so sounds like the plan is to keep the last 5 T23 in service, with these being replaced by the T26 follow on??.

[Gabriele]

Sounds like a clear commitment to keep 19 frigate/destroyer fleet PLUS these lighter ships, NOT instead of, so sounds like the plan is to keep the last 5 T23 in service, with these being replaced by the T26 follow on??.

Yes.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Sounds like a clear commitment to keep 19 frigate/destroyer fleet PLUS these lighter ships, NOT instead of, so sounds like the plan is to keep the last 5 T23 in service, with these being replaced by the T26 follow on??.

Yes.

Not to test your patience with repeat questions Gabby, but to make things absolutely crystal clear you understand that we will indeed get 13 T26 Frigates over time PLUS however many of the new light frigate are ordered (at least 5 but Cameron suggests perhaps more)?

If 'yes', how much money would you be willing to put on your answer?

[SKB]

You're wrong. 8 T26's + 5 Light Frigates = 13. 13 Frigates + 6 T45 Destroyers = 19 Frigates & Destroyers.

Future fleet:
6x T45
8x T26
5x Light Frigate
Total: 19

[Pseudo]

You're wrong. 8 T26's + 5 Light Frigates = 13. 13 Frigates + 6 T45 Destroyers = 19 Frigates & Destroyers.

That's the way I read it too. I think that the comment about expanding the fleet beyond nineteen is probably aspirational at best.