F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[shark bait]

138 F-35s will be ordered according to Sky News.

If that actually gets printed on monday

[arfah]

.....................

[Pseudo]

138 F-35s will be ordered according to Sky News.

If that actually gets printed on monday

The article seems to suggest that part of the price for the F-35's will be reductions to the current RN fleet and T26. If that's the case, I think I can quite easily conclude that this deal sucks.

[SKB]

*sniff* I smell bullsh*t

[shark bait]

The article seems to suggest that part of the price for the F-35's will be reductions to the current RN fleet and T26. If that's the case, I think I can quite easily conclude that this deal sucks.

That part indeed would suck. Article was a little unclear on that part, lets see whats printed on monday.

[arfah]

.................

[shark bait]

Whatever the real truth, not long left to D-Day, H-Hour.

Yes! all of these unnamed sources are doing my head in.

The times specifically quotes Osborne as their source which is a pretty bold statement. Its behind a pay wall though. Does any one subscribe?

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 2015_11_21

[Pseudo]

Whatever the real truth, not long left to D-Day, H-Hour.

Yes! all of these unnamed sources are doing my head in.

The times specifically quotes Osborne as their source which is a pretty bold statement. Its behind a pay wall though. Does any one subscribe?

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 2015_11_21

Osborne is on the Andrew Marr Show tomorrow morning, so that might be worth ruining a lie in to check out.

[shark bait]

Osborne is on the Andrew Marr Show tomorrow morning, so that might be worth ruining a lie in to check out.

I dunno, surely that's what iplayer was invented for, so I don't have to wake to Osborne in the morning!

[Pseudo]

I don't have to wake to Osborne in the morning!

I'm sure that Mrs. Osborne is chartreuse with envy.

[Dave]

The portion of the Times article that's visible states it's from an interview with Osborne, so it's from the "horses mouth".

THE TIMES
Osborne pays out for 138 stealth jets

Tim Shipman and Mark Hookham Published: 22 November 2015
Comment (0)

BRITAIN is to buy 138 stealth fighter jets in a £12bn deal that will treble the firepower of the UK’s two new aircraft carriers and put the country on a “full war footing” in the Middle East for a generation.

George Osborne reveals today that the centrepiece of the government’s strategic defence review, to be unveiled tomorrow, will be a commitment to give Britain the world’s second most potent carrier strike force after the United States.

In an interview with The Sunday Times, the chancellor said Britain should put aside its qualms about military intervention and be prepared to “project our values” around the world.

[Tony Williams]

THE TIMES
In an interview with The Sunday Times, the chancellor said Britain should put aside its qualms about military intervention and be prepared to “project our values” around the world.

That's a curious phrase. It implies that "project our values" means the ability to bomb the hell out of anyone who annoys us (as long as they're not too big and frightening, of course).

[SKB]

I just found this on the Lockheed Martin UK website, first paragraph!

The F-35 Lightning II, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), is the world’s most advanced 5th generation multirole fighter, bringing together stealth, agility and advanced technologies to provide the pilot with unprecedented situational awareness and unmatched lethality and survivability. The U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, as well as the UK Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and military forces in seven other partner countries around the world will fly the F-35. The Royal Air Force and Royal Navy will purchase 138 F-35 aircraft to replace the Harrier aircraft. The F-35B will provide the UK with advanced technology, stealth capability and interoperability across military forces.

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/uk/what ... /f35b.html

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Just came across this myself thanks to the BBC paper reviews. I'm praying to god it is true and accurate but i have a nasty feeling that it is simply the press getting its wires crossed in old information again and drawing assumptions from that.

[seaspear]

The costs of the f35 variants have been steadily dropping and the timeline of when the jets are to be introduced must make accurate estimates of costs guestimates ,certainly you dont build two carriers without the provision for full load out in an event , may of the parts are supposed to be interchangeble between versions so should not be an argument against the a version for the R.A.F .

[SKB]

Sunday Times: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 2015_11_21

[ArmChairCivvy]

Errm... lets put a speculative number 30 against the Tiffie T1s and we get
30 Tranche 1 Typhoon + 67 Tranche 2 Typhoon + 40 Tranche 3 Typhoon + 138 F-35 = 275

That would
- curiously make the overall number to be of two halves
- so the new "combat mass" will not be 275
- Tranche 1s will have left service by he time the F35 numbers exceed the full loadout on two carriers
... but anything exceeding two hundred sounds better than 107 plus a token carrier airwing (or two token ones that would provide a full airwing for one)

The real questions are
- will the T3 integration projects stay on track (all exc. Raptor due to complete by 2018) and thereby Tonkas could be retired about the same time as the deliveries of T3s will complete
- has there been pressure about UK's workshare on the JSF prgrm, and it has become imperative for maintaining it to make a (very) long-term announcement about numbers now

[SKB]

Had a look at Wikipedia (under 'F-35 Procurement') and checked the 'Planned Purchases' list (halfway down the page). I noticed that the UK has '138 (48 on order)' listed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_ ... rocurement

[bobp]

Welcome news if true, lets wait and see what is announced.

[Cooper]

Losing T26 hulls to pay for 138 F35's...WTF!!!

I'm sorry, but I'd far rather see us dropping the F35 count to the 80-90 level in order to free up funds to pay for a full complement of 13 T26.

In full surge mode. we'll never see more than 40 F35's at sea with our one 'always available' carrier, so 80-90 is more than enough with a healthy reserve back on land.

If we lose T26 hulls, we're basically accepting that we will always have to rely on our allies to help with carrier escort.

Seems to me Osborne is thinking as more about UK industrial considerations with F35 workshare exports than he is about actual defence needs.

[downsizer]

I just found this on the Lockheed Martin UK website, first paragraph!

The F-35 Lightning II, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), is the world’s most advanced 5th generation multirole fighter, bringing together stealth, agility and advanced technologies to provide the pilot with unprecedented situational awareness and unmatched lethality and survivability. The U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, as well as the UK Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and military forces in seven other partner countries around the world will fly the F-35. The Royal Air Force and Royal Navy will purchase 138 F-35 aircraft to replace the Harrier aircraft. The F-35B will provide the UK with advanced technology, stealth capability and interoperability across military forces.

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/uk/what ... /f35b.html

Whatever Osbourne announces, that info on LMs website has been on there for years, the two aren't linked.

[bobp]

The daily telegraph in an article about Syria briefly mention the announcement of 138 Daves to be ordered.

[Pseudo]

Another observation is £12bn for 138 makes it around ~$130m per unit, which seems like about at least $20m+ per unit or about £2bn too much. £2bn that perhaps could be spent on more urgent requirements such as P-8.

[Geoff_B]

To be honest i can't see how they can cut numbers of Type-26 if they want a powerful carrier strike fleet as they still need to escort and protect those ships!

One point to note on both the F-35B and Type26 is that in this parlement they will still only pay for the other 32 of the initial 48 and its still likely to be only 3-6 Frigates, the rest will come in the 2020-30 period instead.

However its still welcome news and hopefully we will see more Naval badged squadrons as a result of the decision, it does mean in theory we could put eiither one or both carriers into an operation with a full airgroup (depending on where the 2nd carrier is on its downtime of course!).

It does rather nicely put an end to those endless comments by journalists and pundits when they refer to our two new aicraft carriers and add the question "but will they ever have the aircraft to fly off them ?" when ever they are covered in the news, Which will be a welcome change

[Geoff_B]

Another observation is £12bn for 138 makes it around ~$130m per unit, which seems like about at least $20m+ per unit or about £2bn too much. £2bn that perhaps could be spent on more urgent requirements such as P-8.

Ah but don't forget that buy is over the next 14 years, the bulk of it being after 2020, were still only likely to buy the remainder of the 48 this SDSR.