Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
In the comparison of numbers carried by aircraft carrier Harrier versus F35B , another consideration might be for the sorties able to be generated if the F35b is able to maintain five sorties a day which could provide a useful coverage at only half the designed for sortie rate
With the f35b shown taking off in the "wet" is there any idea of the sea state?
With the f35b shown taking off in the "wet" is there any idea of the sea state?
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
not sure sea state on video but im sure I heard somewhere they can operate upto sea state 6 ,unless someone knows different ?
-
- Member
- Posts: 83
- Joined: 29 Jul 2015, 07:28
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Comfortably it seems. I don’t know if anyone here has ever listened to the Pilot Episodes podcast? It’s crab focused as it’s led by an airplane enthusiast and features 3 current and past pilots who were BBM and Reds pilots but two of them also flew harriers and did carrier tours and one of whom is a senior staff officer currently involved with the carrier program. It’s an interesting listen, I’ve been surprised by their candour on aircraft types and one of the recent episodes featured a day out on HMSQNLZ. They “give away” one or two interesting little snippets including anecdotally how stable they have found her in really high sea states.inch wrote:not sure sea state on video but im sure I heard somewhere they can operate upto sea state 6 ,unless someone knows different ?
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Thanks!
I've already got dozens of podcasts to listen to and now I've got another - and it's nearly two hours long.
I've already got dozens of podcasts to listen to and now I've got another - and it's nearly two hours long.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day. But of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.seaspear wrote:the F35b is able to maintain five sorties a day
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
It depends on how LM interpreted that requirement, fewer longer sorties are more realistic of real world flying.
What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?
What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
One that is really “in the the thick of it”. Fighter aircraft providing defensive cover for a Carrier in a very high threat environment, when as many sorties as are needed will require to be performed.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
You mean none then.Scimitar54 wrote:One that is really “in the the thick of it”. Fighter aircraft providing defensive cover for a Carrier in a very high threat environment, when as many sorties as are needed will require to be performed.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Three sorties a day per aircraft for the first two? days, followed by 2 sorties per aircraft per day was the target, but I do remember a statement from early testing, where it was stated that they were actually achieving five sorties per day (can't remember whether it was the USMC or the RN testing, though)Ron5 wrote:I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day. But of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.
Edit - pretty certain it was the USMC
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I've listened to part of the podcast mentioned above (thanks to a three hour round trip to take my mother to a hospital appointment) and there was a claim made by Wings on HMS QE that they were better able to generate sorties on a 24 hours-per-day basis than a US Navy CVN.
The reasoning was that that CVNs require such a huge deck crew they're not resourced to do it on a full three-watch basis. I was driving at the time but I'm pretty sure that was the claim.
The interview starts around 45 mins into the pod.
The reasoning was that that CVNs require such a huge deck crew they're not resourced to do it on a full three-watch basis. I was driving at the time but I'm pretty sure that was the claim.
The interview starts around 45 mins into the pod.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Only if the Carrier has been sunk or disabled THEN.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
What exactly are you on about?Scimitar54 wrote:Only if the Carrier has been sunk or disabled THEN.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Your poor mother- having to go to hospital (hope she is well and makes a speedy recovery) and having to listen to your podcast in the car!RichardIC wrote:I've listened to part of the podcast mentioned above (thanks to a three hour round trip to take my mother to a hospital appointment) and there was a claim made by Wings on HMS QE that they were better able to generate sorties on a 24 hours-per-day basis than a US Navy CVN.
The reasoning was that that CVNs require such a huge deck crew they're not resourced to do it on a full three-watch basis. I was driving at the time but I'm pretty sure that was the claim.
The interview starts around 45 mins into the pod.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Nah, switched it off for that bit of the journey. I'll pass on your best wishes.dmereifield wrote:Your poor mother- having to go to hospital (hope she is well and makes a speedy recovery) and having to listen to your podcast in the car!
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Ron5 wrote:I'm pretty sure the way back when requirement from the Marines was 3 a day.
Israeli jets, after the initial, longer range strike in the Six Day War.topman wrote:What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?
As per above, AKA CAS = Get there, drop a lot of ordnance... and get back again. Plenty quick.Ron5 wrote:of course, the type of sortie makes a difference.
Which gives us the right (on USMC's part) answer = 4Caribbean wrote: but I do remember a statement from early testing, where it was stated that they were actually achieving five sorties per day (can't remember whether it was the USMC
- we are going over the old ground here, it's all there, in the F-35 thread
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Sortie profiles were given. We not that dumbtopman wrote:It depends on how LM interpreted that requirement, fewer longer sorties are more realistic of real world flying.
What FJ flies 5 sorties a day?
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
That sounds more like a ship requirement.Caribbean wrote:Three sorties a day per aircraft for the first two? days, followed by 2 sorties per aircraft per day was the target
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
The FY2018 Acquisition report stated up to six sorties a day for the F35B off U.S.M.C L.H.Ds and U.K aircraft carriers depending on circumstances I have read the Eurofighter as a comparison is capable of three on its land bases apologies for not being able to download the report
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Yes - that was based on (IIRC) five days operations without resupply. From a little bit of digging on the interwebz, I've seen figures of 5.5 sorties per day in initial surge, followed by 4 sorties per day, for a couple of days, before dropping to 2 to 3 sorties a day (presumably until fuel and munitions run out. I think the implication is (because the limiting factor on total sorties is the stores capability of the Carrier plus support ships) is that we may need fewer aircraft to achieve the originally planned sortie rate.Ron5 wrote:That sounds more like a ship requirement.
Yes - I know........
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
And not lose any.Caribbean wrote:we may need fewer aircraft to achieve the originally planned sortie rate.
Another ;levelling of mud huts; scenario
In which F-35s would be expensive overkill
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I'm a bit dubious about some of these sortie claims. The claimed sortie rates of the QE's always neatly fitted the number of F-35's deployed. So they (designers/RN) said 72 sustained sorties per day surging to 96 for limited periods i.e 36 aircraft at 2 sorties a day surging to 3 a day. I suspect the pilots get knackered doing the 3 a day for more than a couple days.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Would make sense - but it has always been mentioned that there are more pilots than aircraft.Ron5 wrote:I'm a bit dubious about some of these sortie claims. The claimed sortie rates of the QE's always neatly fitted the number of F-35's deployed. So they (designers/RN) said 72 sustained sorties per day surging to 96 for limited periods i.e 36 aircraft at 2 sorties a day surging to 3 a day. I suspect the pilots get knackered doing the 3 a day for more than a couple days.
If we have 2/3 pilots per jet, surely humanity isn't the limiting factor?
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Does it not also depend on the length of a sortie? i.e 3 per day could mean a different pilot doing 3 missions of 7 hrs per day allowing for 1hr turnaround on each mission for fueling (infight aswell? ) & re-arming or you could have 6 x missions of less endurance ( 3hrs ?) for example, so as with most things it may depend on fluid interpretations ...
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
No need to think in terms of 7 hour sorties ........ 2-3 hours would be about as much as it could be .............. without A2A refuelling, that is. Regretably, we don’t have any organic A2A assets either!
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I suspect we are all showing our ignorance of such things. If only we had experts that posted here