Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
164
52%
Kongsberg NSM
78
25%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
44
14%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
21
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 315

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

They weren't kidding when they said not much could be seen of the aft section with all the covering tarps. Makes you wonder what secrets are being hidden away :D

Thanks Jonas.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Royal Navy twitter.

Two more sections have been completed, ready to be added to the already-joined forward segment of HMS Glasgow at BAE Systems’ yard in Govan, while the RN’s traditional paint scheme has been applied to units pieced together in what will eventually be an 8,000-tonne jigsaw.

see ""

"An 8,000-tonne jigsaw.". So, apparently, sometimes-quoted "6900t" of T26 is standard or light weight, not full-load displacement.

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Royal Navy twitter.

Two more sections have been completed, ready to be added to the already-joined forward segment of HMS Glasgow at BAE Systems’ yard in Govan, while the RN’s traditional paint scheme has been applied to units pieced together in what will eventually be an 8,000-tonne jigsaw.

see ""

"An 8,000-tonne jigsaw.". So, apparently, sometimes-quoted "6900t" of T26 is standard or light weight, not full-load displacement.
So they should actually be using the lower figure. The jigsaw doesn't include the contents :D

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Maybe it's 9100t really ron5 ,they just been kidding us ;-)

Brasil
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Brasil »

What is the VLS model (in addition to the MK-41) that will be responsible for launching the Sea Ceptor in the Type 26?

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Brasil wrote:What is the VLS model (in addition to the MK-41) that will be responsible for launching the Sea Ceptor in the Type 26?
A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Brasil »

tomuk wrote: A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23
Already have a name? I'm looking to know this because it looks like the same model that Brazil adopted for its new light frigates, Tamandaré class.

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Cooper
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Cooper »

Brasil wrote:
tomuk wrote: A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23
Already have a name? I'm looking to know this because it looks like the same model that Brazil adopted for its new light frigates, Tamandaré class.
Sea Ceptor.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Brasil »

Cooper wrote: Sea Ceptor.
Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.

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Jensy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Brasil wrote:
Cooper wrote: Sea Ceptor.
Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.
The entire system, including the vertical launch Sea Wolf variant was called, 'GWS-26'. The conventionally launched system (such as on Greenhalgh and Rademaker) is the 'GWS-25'.

Not sure I've ever heard a specific name for just the launcher but they're the same tubes that now fire Sea Ceptor (just with a little hat/mushroom on top).

Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.

Brasil
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Brasil »

Jensy wrote:
Brasil wrote:
Cooper wrote: Sea Ceptor.
Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.
The entire system, including the vertical launch Sea Wolf variant was called, 'GWS-26'. The conventionally launched system (such as on Greenhalgh and Rademaker) is the 'GWS-25'.

Not sure I've ever heard a specific name for just the launcher but they're the same tubes that now fire Sea Ceptor (just with a little hat/mushroom on top).

Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.

The Brazilian Tamandaré frigate (who also launches the Sea Ceptor) seems to have the same "mushroom" launcher of the type 26:

You can zoom the oficial image here:
https://external-preview.redd.it/A06b52 ... 7a0a5734e7

And here in the 1:33 mark

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Jensy wrote: Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.
Price, I would guess.

NZ could not use existing tubes and still went with some 'sporting' version rather than ExLS.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SKB »


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Its worrying that with the BAE Scottish shipyards build system it was only on delivery that the build defects on HMS Forth showed up, now with the bad experience of Forth behind them its good news that they have made the necessary changes to their quality assurance protocols.

It could be argued the Batch 2 OPVs as a pipe cleaner did their job, all be at an expensive one, and able to catch it early on in the T26 build, so avoiding a bigger more expensive disaster with the T26.

NAO reported on the Batch 2 OPVs where it detailed the defects in build of HMS Forth that made it unsafe to operate leading to a thirteen month delay in IOC, subsequent checks revealed the same quality assurance failures in build of first T26, Glasgow.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... omised.pdf p45

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

SKB wrote:
I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

NickC wrote:
SKB wrote:
I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.
"Rolls-Royce Canada based in Peterborough, Ontario has considerable experience manufacturing marine container and load-handling equipment for the commercial sector and signed a Design and Development Agreement for the Type 26 with the MoD in 2014. The contract for the manufacture of the MBHS for the first three ships in was awarded in February 2018"

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Ron5 wrote:
NickC wrote:
SKB wrote:
I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.
"Rolls-Royce Canada based in Peterborough, Ontario has considerable experience manufacturing marine container and load-handling equipment for the commercial sector and signed a Design and Development Agreement for the Type 26 with the MoD in 2014. The contract for the manufacture of the MBHS for the first three ships in was awarded in February 2018"
Thx for correction, so if understand correctly RRCM, now Kongsberg, only manufacturing the fixed pitch propellers at Waren, Germany for the T26.

Key Features
• Five blades
• Optimised variable pitch distribution
• Non-linear blade skew of 18 degrees
• Advanced new technology blade sections
• Close to 50% reduction in ship hull vibrations due to propeller induced hull pressures
• About 50% reduction in ship machinery vibration levels due to propeller induced unsteady shaft forces
• Improved propeller efficiency

From <https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/prod ... nformation>

Einar Vegsund VP Design & Hydro hos Kongsberg Maritime designer of the RRS Sir David Attenborough built to meet DNV Silent R class rules said propellers are the main source of noise but are also very important for vessel efficiency // Designers seek to move the thrust generated by the propeller further from the tip and closer to the hub. Unloading the propeller tip decreases the “disturbance of the water” by the propeller closer to the hull reducing the noise it creates. At the same time, unloading the tip reduces the efficiency"
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90inFIRST
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by 90inFIRST »

Post says 5 blades picture shows 4?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

At the time of the 2019 DSEI the count was still 5:
https://www.themilitarytimes.co.uk/wp-c ... 24x498.jpg

However, there was also a comment that the appearance was of a T23 propellor scaled up; a little bit of product development?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Just background info on quiet propellers,

RRS Sir David Attenborough designed for extremely low underwater radiated noise to avoid interference with survey equipment or disturbance to marine mammals or fish distribution is fitted with two RollsRoyce, now Kongsberg, five bladed 4.5 m diameter Controllable Pitch Propellers, CPP, whereas T26 FPP.

According to hydrodynamicist Björn Schröder (Blade Design and Hydrodynamics-Rolls-Royce Marine “The preliminary propeller design did not meet the strict noise requirements. The main source of noise was the tip vortex cavitation. So instead of further unloading the tip of the propeller, we optimised the propeller to deliver a high cavitation inception speed (CIS) like a naval vessel, and thus mitigating the tip vortex cavitation and achieve Silent R requirements.”

Pic found on web, shows the large propeller boss required for a CPP.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Ultra Electronics S2150 HMS, xav posted on T23 thread, Ultra also rec'd order for three ship sets for the first batch of T26's, presume any future orders for T26 the HMS will be met from scrapped T23's, my pic wouldn't post :eh: , see xav post.

Courtesy Ultra Electronics

"The sonar has been designed by Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems and will replace the legacy Sonar Type 2050, which has been in Royal Navy service since the 1990s. The new sonar incorporates a state of the art User Interface to improve operator effectiveness and usability.

The digital control of the outboard array minimises interference, reduces ships cabling, maximises reliability and extends array maintenance intervals to at least five years. The sonar will be fitted to eight of the Royal Navy Type 23 frigates. Ultra has also been awarded the contract to supply this sonar to the first three Royal Navy Type 26 frigates currently under construction.

As part of Ultra’s ‘Sea Searcher’ sonar range, Ultra has also developed two smaller and lighter weight variants of the Type 2150 Hull Mount Sonar for naval vessels up to 1,000 tonnes and 2,000 tonnes respectively.

With state-of-the art in-board processing and innovative user displays, this family of sonar systems provides a potent Anti-Submarine Warfare capability for patrol vessels, frigates and other vessels worldwide.

Mike Williams, Managing Director of Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems commented: “Reaching this significant milestone has been key for Ultra. With a number of significant changes from the Sonar 2050 system it replaces, the project team has designed and developed a system that simplifies user operability and significantly reduces life cycle costs and in board footprint. They have truly excelled themselves”


From <https://www.adsadvance.co.uk/ultra-elec ... tland.html>

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

This emphasis on improving hull mounted sonars - and adding MAD to Merlins, is it to better balance the sub hunting capability whether they need to be undertaken in blue water or closer to littorals?
- or is it/ are they just all-round improvements?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:This emphasis on improving hull mounted sonars - and adding MAD to Merlins, is it to better balance the sub hunting capability whether they need to be undertaken in blue water or closer to littorals?
- or is it/ are they just all-round improvements?
My impression is that S2150 is an updated S2050 low frequency medium range sonar more suited for blue water ops, with all round improvements, better usability and reliability.

Understand for littorals you need medium and high frequency sonar eg USN developed the DDG-1000/Zumwalt to operate in the littorals for its NGFS mission to support the US Marines, when USN cut back buy from 32 to 3, reason given was that that in addition to the lack of AAW capability, VADM McCullough also testified that the sonar on DDG-1000 (AN/SQS-60 (MF) & AN/SQS-61 (HF)) was not ideal for tracking modern non nuclear submarines in blue water environments ?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Isotta Fraschini - Bara, a subsidiary of Fincantieri, publicising their new 1,600 kWe diesel gensets,1,200 rpm, four fitted in the new PPA frigate (first three ships installed with MAN 12V175D gensets, 1,640 kW).

They mention they build the enclosures for the two MT30s for the 33,000t LHD Trieste (half size of QNLZ) and for the T26 MT30s

From <https://www.themeditelegraph.com/it/gre ... 1.38068786>

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

German Monch site article on the Hunter, if understanding correctly quoting Geoff Searle of ASC shipbuilding for the last two years or so, subsidiary of BAE Systems Australia (previously he spent five years running the UK Type 26 programme).

The original Hunter graphics stated 8,800 tonnes EOL displacement on award of contract but now quoting "The first unit with a full load displacement of 9,700 tonnes", BAE Systems only quote 6,900 tonnes for the T26.

If true represents a growth of 2,800 tonnes / 40% in displacement over and above the RN T26, though BAE Systems specs do not specify if the 6,900 tonnes is light, standard or full load displacement. Presume part of the rationale for the higher Hunter displacement reflects the heavier and need for substantially more power for the CEAFAR2 radar with its 14 antennas, Hunter ships crew 180 compared to 157 of the T26. Would note 9,700 tonnes approx twice displacement of a T23.

https://www.monch.com/mpg/news/naval-ch ... igate.html

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