Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Lossie doesnt have the washdown bays and hangars spare to deal with them. A big part of the move to Waddington is based on common facilities etc. Sadly Kinloss was too inefficient when it comes to operating a few airframes instead of the 4 squadrons of the kipper fleet.
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
downsizer wrote:Two reasons why it won't be Lossie.
1. SNP.
2. Space.
Waddo.
SNP are pushing the case for it to be in scotland
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Presumably so they can claim they own it when the next indyref rolls around.marktigger wrote:downsizer wrote:Two reasons why it won't be Lossie.
1. SNP.
2. Space.
Waddo.
SNP are pushing the case for it to be in scotland
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
As long as they hurry up and order some soon, I don't really care where they're based, tbh...marktigger wrote:isn't it busy with MerlinHC, Wildcat CHF and AACLittle J wrote:Yeovilton
Culdrose? be colocated with the other major ASW platform.......suspect it's going to be waddington when its sorted
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
This is where the American POV works against me, when we consolidate through BRAC the bases that survive usually get some investment to cover what was lost. So I just assumed Lossie had gained, or had plans to gain, the ground work it needed. Also I think they are going to give back a lot of those savings just paying for the gas to get to their regular patrol areas, Lincoln's in the wrong spot for and ASW squadron.jimthelad wrote:Lossie doesnt have the washdown bays and hangars spare to deal with them. A big part of the move to Waddington is based on common facilities etc. Sadly Kinloss was too inefficient when it comes to operating a few airframes instead of the 4 squadrons of the kipper fleet.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Halidon that's exactly why I wondered if they might end up back at Kinloss. All the infrastructure is still in place & the Royal Engineers are only using a fraction of the base.
If they choose Lossie then the remaining Tornados will have to move down south.
If they choose Lossie then the remaining Tornados will have to move down south.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
All the tonkas are down south!The base at Lossie is now the northern qra field. At Kinloss all the the ASuW/ASW infrastructure has been removed and the airfiled down graded from a NATO diversion field. I believe the LRR radar has been deactivated and the sim block demolished. The armory has been repurposed by the army and the mission support infrastructure in ops and the secondary ops in the woods toward Burghead has been removed. I guess it could be put back but it would cost a fortune. I suspect however you may see Stornoway and Lossie being used as austere fob's from time to time.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Isn't the Tornado OCU squadron, along with simulators, still up in Lossie? If i haven't missed a passage, earlier plans to move XV(R) Sqn south have been dropped.jimthelad wrote:All the tonkas are down south!The base at Lossie is now the northern qra field. At Kinloss all the the ASuW/ASW infrastructure has been removed and the airfiled down graded from a NATO diversion field. I believe the LRR radar has been deactivated and the sim block demolished. The armory has been repurposed by the army and the mission support infrastructure in ops and the secondary ops in the woods toward Burghead has been removed. I guess it could be put back but it would cost a fortune. I suspect however you may see Stornoway and Lossie being used as austere fob's from time to time.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Have they all moved south?
We get them over the house daily here in Forres.
We get them over the house daily here in Forres.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I believe the OCU is due to wind down soon AFAIK they only have 6 operational airframes(dont have serials)I guess they may stay in business for a while longer if the OSD is put back more but there are sims at Marham and the HAS complex is being revamped for Typhoon soon if the order book for a local construction supplier is to be believed. If the budget is tight they would be better moving south to simplify maintenance and logistics on a dwindling fleet.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
On basing a future MPA I would have though Waddington is the front runner ( all ISTAR assets together) , with Culdrose second (all ASW assets together), and Leeming 3rd (under used and a desire to keep it as a possible northern QRA if Scotland goes independent.), Scampton a poor 4th.
On forward basing ? Prestwick
On forward basing ? Prestwick
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Are there no air bases in Northern Scotland ??
Seems like the right location to me: covers the North Sea and North Atlantic nicely (were "red" SSNs are likely to patrol) and not too far from RN SSBN base (they are in Faslane right?) just like French MPAs are based in Brittany not too far from the SSBN base.
Edit: Found Loosiemouth Air Base on google maps
Edit 2: Reading my way back into the thread, OK, it may go intedependant (Scotland...) and it is too small.
But surely this can be expanded. Usually, when procuring new vessels or aircraft, you have to adapt your infrastructures and bases... just saying.
Seems like the right location to me: covers the North Sea and North Atlantic nicely (were "red" SSNs are likely to patrol) and not too far from RN SSBN base (they are in Faslane right?) just like French MPAs are based in Brittany not too far from the SSBN base.
Edit: Found Loosiemouth Air Base on google maps
Edit 2: Reading my way back into the thread, OK, it may go intedependant (Scotland...) and it is too small.
But surely this can be expanded. Usually, when procuring new vessels or aircraft, you have to adapt your infrastructures and bases... just saying.
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
The idea of the deployable Mag Eagle Drone based on the Scan Eagle is intriguing. Given the RN operate the Scan Eagle if the UK opted for the P8 over the P1 is this likely to be an asset we would use?
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
The MagEagle is a specific alternative to normal MAD work. It allows you to repeatedly go MAD-scanning, without having to bring the P-8 itself down low. Depending on how important the MAD still is, it might be too important a piece of the overall capability not to have it.Dahedd wrote:The idea of the deployable Mag Eagle Drone based on the Scan Eagle is intriguing. Given the RN operate the Scan Eagle if the UK opted for the P8 over the P1 is this likely to be an asset we would use?
The alternative is fitting a MAD and use the P-8 for going low, but it would be better not to. Ruins the airframe faster, is less fuel efficient, increases risk, and when the P-8 is flying super low, all other onboard sensors suffer the range penalty that low altitude implies. Moreover, as the US Navy goes for High Altitude ASW, sticking with low altitude approach would undermine the whole point of commonality. Got to stay as close as possible to the USN configuration, to benefit from shared upgrade and maintenance / support programme and save big money.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Dahedd wrote:Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.
and pressure from the US govt and its input into the SDSR
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
If pressure from the US gets us an MPA capability, I'm all for it. Go down the P1 route and it will end up being another MRA4 fiasco. More delay,an aircraft that we know next to nothing about, ditto a supply chain, maintenance, logistics, electronics, the list is endless.marktigger wrote:Dahedd wrote:Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.
and pressure from the US govt and its input into the SDSR
Yes by all means US, put some pressure on us, also dangle a carrot in that we get some aircraft early, in short make us an offer we can't refuse.
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
at the end of the day we need the most capable platform that can be bought off the shelf. Not one our allies think we should have to protect their industry!
Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
Agreed. And as I said the ex Nimrod guys I know prefer the P1.marktigger wrote:at the end of the day we need the most capable platform that can be bought off the shelf. Not one our allies think we should have to protect their industry!
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options
I suspect that the fact that it is purpose-designed and has four engines might be contributing factors.Jdam wrote:Did they give any reasons for preferring the p1?