Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

[downsizer]

Two reasons why it won't be Lossie.

1. SNP.
2. Space.

Waddo.

[jimthelad]

Lossie doesnt have the washdown bays and hangars spare to deal with them. A big part of the move to Waddington is based on common facilities etc. Sadly Kinloss was too inefficient when it comes to operating a few airframes instead of the 4 squadrons of the kipper fleet.

[marktigger]

Two reasons why it won't be Lossie.

1. SNP.
2. Space.

Waddo.

SNP are pushing the case for it to be in scotland

[raven111]

Two reasons why it won't be Lossie.

1. SNP.
2. Space.

Waddo.

SNP are pushing the case for it to be in scotland

Presumably so they can claim they own it when the next indyref rolls around.

[Little J]

Yeovilton

isn't it busy with MerlinHC, Wildcat CHF and AAC

Culdrose? be colocated with the other major ASW platform.......suspect it's going to be waddington when its sorted

As long as they hurry up and order some soon, I don't really care where they're based, tbh...

[Halidon]

Lossie doesnt have the washdown bays and hangars spare to deal with them. A big part of the move to Waddington is based on common facilities etc. Sadly Kinloss was too inefficient when it comes to operating a few airframes instead of the 4 squadrons of the kipper fleet.

This is where the American POV works against me, when we consolidate through BRAC the bases that survive usually get some investment to cover what was lost. So I just assumed Lossie had gained, or had plans to gain, the ground work it needed. Also I think they are going to give back a lot of those savings just paying for the gas to get to their regular patrol areas, Lincoln's in the wrong spot for and ASW squadron.

[Dahedd]

Halidon that's exactly why I wondered if they might end up back at Kinloss. All the infrastructure is still in place & the Royal Engineers are only using a fraction of the base.

If they choose Lossie then the remaining Tornados will have to move down south.

[jimthelad]

All the tonkas are down south!The base at Lossie is now the northern qra field. At Kinloss all the the ASuW/ASW infrastructure has been removed and the airfiled down graded from a NATO diversion field. I believe the LRR radar has been deactivated and the sim block demolished. The armory has been repurposed by the army and the mission support infrastructure in ops and the secondary ops in the woods toward Burghead has been removed. I guess it could be put back but it would cost a fortune. I suspect however you may see Stornoway and Lossie being used as austere fob's from time to time.

[Gabriele]

All the tonkas are down south!The base at Lossie is now the northern qra field. At Kinloss all the the ASuW/ASW infrastructure has been removed and the airfiled down graded from a NATO diversion field. I believe the LRR radar has been deactivated and the sim block demolished. The armory has been repurposed by the army and the mission support infrastructure in ops and the secondary ops in the woods toward Burghead has been removed. I guess it could be put back but it would cost a fortune. I suspect however you may see Stornoway and Lossie being used as austere fob's from time to time.

Isn't the Tornado OCU squadron, along with simulators, still up in Lossie? If i haven't missed a passage, earlier plans to move XV(R) Sqn south have been dropped.

[Dahedd]

Have they all moved south?

We get them over the house daily here in Forres.

[downsizer]

OCU is still in lossie.

[jimthelad]

I believe the OCU is due to wind down soon AFAIK they only have 6 operational airframes(dont have serials)I guess they may stay in business for a while longer if the OSD is put back more but there are sims at Marham and the HAS complex is being revamped for Typhoon soon if the order book for a local construction supplier is to be believed. If the budget is tight they would be better moving south to simplify maintenance and logistics on a dwindling fleet.

[rec]

On basing a future MPA I would have though Waddington is the front runner ( all ISTAR assets together) , with Culdrose second (all ASW assets together), and Leeming 3rd (under used and a desire to keep it as a possible northern QRA if Scotland goes independent.), Scampton a poor 4th.

On forward basing ? Prestwick

[marktigger]

forward basing maybe lossie ? but will we have the numbers?

[xav]

Are there no air bases in Northern Scotland ??

Seems like the right location to me: covers the North Sea and North Atlantic nicely (were "red" SSNs are likely to patrol) and not too far from RN SSBN base (they are in Faslane right?) just like French MPAs are based in Brittany not too far from the SSBN base.

Edit: Found Loosiemouth Air Base on google maps
Edit 2: Reading my way back into the thread, OK, it may go intedependant (Scotland...) and it is too small.
But surely this can be expanded. Usually, when procuring new vessels or aircraft, you have to adapt your infrastructures and bases... just saying.

[jonas]

Interesting article on P8 upgrades :-

http://www.janes.com/article/53639/us-n ... w-missions

[Dahedd]

The idea of the deployable Mag Eagle Drone based on the Scan Eagle is intriguing. Given the RN operate the Scan Eagle if the UK opted for the P8 over the P1 is this likely to be an asset we would use?

[Gabriele]

The idea of the deployable Mag Eagle Drone based on the Scan Eagle is intriguing. Given the RN operate the Scan Eagle if the UK opted for the P8 over the P1 is this likely to be an asset we would use?

The MagEagle is a specific alternative to normal MAD work. It allows you to repeatedly go MAD-scanning, without having to bring the P-8 itself down low. Depending on how important the MAD still is, it might be too important a piece of the overall capability not to have it.

The alternative is fitting a MAD and use the P-8 for going low, but it would be better not to. Ruins the airframe faster, is less fuel efficient, increases risk, and when the P-8 is flying super low, all other onboard sensors suffer the range penalty that low altitude implies. Moreover, as the US Navy goes for High Altitude ASW, sticking with low altitude approach would undermine the whole point of commonality. Got to stay as close as possible to the USN configuration, to benefit from shared upgrade and maintenance / support programme and save big money.

[Dahedd]

Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.

[marktigger]

Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.

and pressure from the US govt and its input into the SDSR

[jonas]

Living up here next to Kinloss I definitely miss the Nimrod & I know a few ex ground crew, engineers & aircrew. Their opinions are mixed on a replacement, but the P1 seems to win there vote though they tend to acknowledge that the P8 will most likely win due to economies of scale & commonality with the USN.

and pressure from the US govt and its input into the SDSR

If pressure from the US gets us an MPA capability, I'm all for it. Go down the P1 route and it will end up being another MRA4 fiasco. More delay,an aircraft that we know next to nothing about, ditto a supply chain, maintenance, logistics, electronics, the list is endless.

Yes by all means US, put some pressure on us, also dangle a carrot in that we get some aircraft early, in short make us an offer we can't refuse.

[marktigger]

at the end of the day we need the most capable platform that can be bought off the shelf. Not one our allies think we should have to protect their industry!

[Dahedd]

at the end of the day we need the most capable platform that can be bought off the shelf. Not one our allies think we should have to protect their industry!

Agreed. And as I said the ex Nimrod guys I know prefer the P1.

[Jdam]

Did they give any reasons for preferring the p1?

[Tony Williams]

Did they give any reasons for preferring the p1?

I suspect that the fact that it is purpose-designed and has four engines might be contributing factors.