Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

[Tiny Toy]

We need to train on the equipment and the organisation that we will be fighting with.

Fair enough. I do think there will be a load more automation in the near future though which will reduce this requirement.

[jonas]

We need to train on the equipment and the organisation that we will be fighting with.

Fair enough. I do think there will be a load more automation in the near future though which will reduce this requirement.

I agree with you on that there will be more automation in the future, but I don't think we are anywhere near it yet.

[SKB]

How about using the Sentinel R1? http://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=179

[Ianmb17]

I think we need the P8 as the R1 is not armed and can only see surface targets and the new P8 AAS version might mean it could do the R1 role as well

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/exclus ... 1562912667

[Gabriele]

Besides, both Sentinel and Shadow are on a temporary lifeline only, out to 2018...

[downsizer]

That and the idea they could do the job of the P8 is full retard. FFS.

[Gabriele]

That and the idea they could do the job of the P8 is full retard. FFS.

Well, it's the same MOD that no later than today throws basically everything into the list of what is supposedly mitigating the lack of MPA, from C-130 to Sentry passing by Crowsnest.

Missing Challenger 2 and AS-90, clearly very useful stop gaps.

[downsizer]

It isn't the operators that claim/say that, it's politicians and their CS mandarins.

Anyone with any actual knowledge of operations knows it's fucking bollox.

[Gabriele]

It isn't the operators that claim/say that, it's politicians and their CS mandarins.

Anyone with any actual knowledge of operations knows it's fucking bollox.

Of course. But it is through the politicians side of the MOD that the things get decided, so the problem remains.

[Ianmb17]

Gabriele
Do you think they would extend the R1 again if RAF went P8 AAS as it would take time to acquire and train on I know seedcorn might help bring it in quicker but I don't think they could be brought into service by 2018.Is P8 AAS available or still in testing

[Gabriele]

Gabriele
Do you think they would extend the R1 again if RAF went P8 AAS as it would take time to acquire and train on I know seedcorn might help bring it in quicker but I don't think they could be brought into service by 2018.Is P8 AAS available or still in testing

AAS is a black programme. Does not get much visibility and the US might not even be willing to export it, so it is tricky. If an MPA procurement was funded, maybe it would be possible to extend slightly further the life of the Sentinel to lessen the gap between one and the other. It'll be much more practicable to do Sentinel-like surveillance with a P-8 than roleplaying a P-8 with a Sentinel, even without AAS / without an alternative radar fit under the fuselage.

But can we actually hope for a P-8 procurement, or the SDSR will merely terminate Seedcorn and write the word end once and for all...?

[Ianmb17]

Has anything happend with the R1 maritime upgrade

[SKB]

Has anything happend with the R1 maritime upgrade

http://www.janes.com/article/45057/uk-t ... operations
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... th-403360/

[Little J]

If P-8 was acquired but AAs was not exportable, maybe the Sentinel's radar could be modified to a similar configuration? With Raytheon making both I'm sure they would be able to help (for the right price).

[Gabriele]

If P-8 was acquired but AAs was not exportable, maybe the Sentinel's radar could be modified to a similar configuration? With Raytheon making both I'm sure they would be able to help (for the right price).

It should be doable, from a technical point of view.

[Ianmb17]

That would be good as we have the trained users and 8 ground stations,training facilities already

[marktigger]

could the senteniel airframe be reused......say in 32 sqn

[GibMariner]

Not sure if this has been posted here before:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ident.html

Russian submarines are likely to have gathered valuable intelligence on Britain’s nuclear deterrent since the Government scrapped maritime patrol aircraft needed to track them, senior RAF figures warn.
Britain’s lack of submarine-hunting planes after the Nimrod fleet was axed has left Trident vulnerable to Russian spying which could “prejudice the security and effectiveness” of the deterrent, they argue.

[shark bait]

it is very true that we are putting these billion pound systems at unnecessary risk, and it completely undermines the credibility of trident by not ensuring safe passage to the open ocean.

[Tiny Toy]

Why has this thread been filed under RAF?

[shark bait]

Why has this thread been filed under RAF?

RAF operated Nimrod, its highly likely the RAF will be the owner of any future maritime patrol aircraft

[Tiny Toy]

Why has this thread been filed under RAF?

RAF operated Nimrod, its highly likely the RAF will be the owner of any future maritime patrol aircraft

Aircraft aren't the only options for maritime patrol, and deciding the equipment and owner at this stage is highly prejudicial. RAF operated Nimrod because it was a chunky great jet. It seems highly likely that if we bought Poseidon P-8 then the RAF would operate those. However if the P-8s were only used in limited numbers as part of an overall solution (i.e. just for interdiction) and other equipment such as drones and even seabed sonar were used for surveillance (the vast majority of the job), which is a much more cost effective way of doing things, then it makes sense for services with training in the latter equipment (like 700X NAS etc) to operate those capabilities. As it is the primary stated requirement for British maritime patrol is not interdiction but SAR which presumes 771 NAS.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Moved into Joint Service.

[shark bait]

I do agree with what your saying, however I don't think its difficult to accept that the only realistic option for the near future is an aircraft, which will almost certainly be RAF owned.

I also agree that drones and seabed sonar could be much more cost effective, however non is currently at the level of maturity of something such as the P8 right now. Sub hunting drones will become very important but they are a very long way off, and the UK needs a solution soon.

[Tiny Toy]

I also agree that drones and seabed sonar could be much more cost effective, however non is currently at the level of maturity of something such as the P8 right now. Sub hunting drones will become very important but they are a very long way off, and the UK needs a solution soon.

We need a short term solution, and we need a plan for a better long term solution. Without the plan, the better long term solution never happens and the short term solution becomes the only solution until it is obsolete or the capability is just binned.