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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 09 Oct 2019, 19:51
by SDL
When are we set to get anymore?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 09 Oct 2019, 20:07
by downsizer
Scimitar54 wrote:All good historical (and up to date) logged evidence of the RAF withholding Fast Jet assets from Carrier Strike. It should make the eventual transfer of the F35Bs to the RN far easier to justify. Not a good start for (RAF) "F35B Operational Squadron" qualification & training from the QEC Aircraft Carriers. If the RAF have not sent at least 6 x pilots to use those aircraft to get "Carrier Qualified" (and to gain familiarisation with a Carrier deployment) then they are missing an invaluable opportunity, with only one more WESTLANT to go before HMS QE's first operational deployment. Potentially very shoddy indeed.
So much bollox in one post.

Do you know how many pilots have been sent? No, of course you don't.
Do you know who decided how many jets to send? No, of course you don't.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 09 Oct 2019, 20:33
by serge750
After the F35b & HMS QE get back to Britain I think they might train a few more times in UK waters landing & taking of in various conditions ( a lot better chance of bad weather.. :lol: ) or even on POW, before the first operational deployment in 2021, is it going to be early or late 2021?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 02:01
by Scimitar54
Where did I suggest how many pilots had been sent.
Where did I suggest who had decided how many jets to send.

Thank you for your challenging one word response which of course is b.......s in it’s entirety.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 07:11
by topman
Bit of an odd trail out there.

Three seems reasonable, can't run before you can walk.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 08:43
by Scimitar54
If “three seems reasonable”, then why would the RAF send six to Cyprus (so that the F35b force can find out what it is like and what is needed to operate the F35b from a forward base) earlier this year?

Looks like a straightforward case of ‘Double Standards”.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 09:09
by downsizer
Are you forgetting the ones from 17?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 09:55
by Scimitar54
No, I am not forgetting the “Test & Evaluation Aircraft”. However, F35b trials at this years WESTLANT were supposed to be about operational flying & maintenance of “Frontline Squadron Aircraft” on HMS Queen Elizabeth.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 10:29
by downsizer
They’ll be used for that as well.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 10:35
by topman
Scimitar54 wrote:If “three seems reasonable”, then why would the RAF send six to Cyprus (so that the F35b force can find out what it is like and what is needed to operate the F35b from a forward base) earlier this year?

Looks like a straightforward case of ‘Double Standards”.
You've still got 6 aircraft going onto the boat. So not really double standards. Plus it's difficult to look at something as simple as aircraft numbers and draw wide ranging conclusions.

May have been limitation put on the fleet.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 11:22
by SKB

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 12:12
by Scimitar54
Well with these excuses, just how well are the less than 2 years between IOC (Land) and IOC (Maritime) being used (or squandered). Only around 50% of that time remains remember.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 14:21
by SDL

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 17:05
by topman
Scimitar54 wrote:Well with these excuses, just how well are the less than 2 years between IOC (Land) and IOC (Maritime) being used (or squandered). Only around 50% of that time remains remember.
Do you know what constitutes either of those targets?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 21:35
by bobp
As well as the six UK aircraft, up to 4 from the USMC will be joining them. It will be nice if we get to see them all on deck at same time, plus of course the deployed Helicopters.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 11 Oct 2019, 01:01
by CameronPerson
bobp wrote:As well as the six UK aircraft, up to 4 from the USMC will be joining them. It will be nice if we get to see them all on deck at same time, plus of course the deployed Helicopters.
Call me boring but I want a hangar pic. I just remember how cramped Ark Royal looked on her farewell voyage and she only had four Harriers at the time..... Be nice to see a hangar with more than six jets in (just) with plenty of space left - if we needed further evidence of how mahoosive she is

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 11 Oct 2019, 12:47
by Little J
SDL wrote:
that's a really cool looking patch

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 11 Oct 2019, 20:32
by serge750
Lightning strikes this weekend according to twitter apparently, so hopefully the pictures will start rolling v soon ! maybe a couple of days with the 3 from 17sq then increase with the dam busters then the us marines? so excited to see a fuller deck !

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 13 Oct 2019, 18:18
by SDL
They're on the QE...

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 13 Oct 2019, 19:45
by SKB
Two planes ID's are BK-04 ZM138 (17 Squadron) and BK-15 ZM149 (617/207 Squadron),
Seems from photos that BK-04 was first ever British owned F-35B to land on QE and QE class.

EDIT: (14/10/2019)
Another, BK-17 (ZM151) became the third British F-35B to land.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 17 Oct 2019, 10:01
by inch
Could someone Tel me how many f35b have they said going to be onboard HMS qe for this latest trial ,I know there is going to be USMC embarkment also but how many British f35 total ? Cheers

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 17 Oct 2019, 11:28
by SDL
There were 6 UK aircraft moved for use in WestLant19, but so far only 4 have embarked. it's not known yet when/if the other two will be joining them

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 17 Oct 2019, 11:34
by inch
Cheers SDL :-)

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 20 Oct 2019, 12:00
by NickC
The delay of the F-35 able to complete IOT&E due to delays of 'F-35 In-A-Box' (FIAB) proving it can operate in a high threat environment against peer enemies pushing back Milestone C, full production authority to possible 2021, but seems to have little effect as high production rate continues under LRIPs.

What is of concern that until IOT&E/F-35 In-A-Box' (FIAB) completed that any of the UK buy of current aircraft might not be able to be bought up to full specification or require expensively upgrades, making actual number of our limited buy of F-35 fully operational capable fewer still, presume one reason why simulation for FIAB is required as it will require Block 4/TR3 (incl'd new software and more powerful computers) upgrades planned for Lot 15 a/c due for delivery in 2023.

DefenseNews
Pentagon acquisition chief Ellen Lord said during a Friday press conference she signed a program deviation report this week that "documented an expected schedule threshold breach in milestone C full-rate production of up to 13 months."

The U.S. Defense Department will not clear the F-35 fighter jet for full-rate production this year, and it may even have to push that milestone as far as January 2021, the Pentagon’s acquisition executive said Friday.

But before Lord signs off on the production decision, the F-35 must complete operational testing, the results of which will be validated by Robert Behler, the Pentagon’s director of operational test and evaluation.

Joint Simulation Environment continues to face delays in its own development, JSE, is needed to conduct simulated evaluations of the F-35 in a range of high-threat scenarios.

Lockheed Martin are lagging behind in integrating the "'F-35 In-A-Box” — the simulated model of the F-35 and its sensors and weapons — into the JSE, reported Military.com, which broke the news of the testing delay in September.

The JSE simulations project characteristics such as weather, geography and range, allowing test pilots to prove the aircraft's "full capabilities against the full range of required threats and scenarios," according to a 2015 Director, Operational Test & Evaluation (DOT&E) report.

From <https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10 ... year-late/>

Military.com
JPO - F-35 In-A-Box' (FIAB) model, which is the simulation of F-35 sensor systems and the overall aircraft integration.
JPO - IOT&E for the purposes of determining the weapons systems' operational effectiveness and operational suitability for combat."
DOT&E - The JSE simulations project characteristics such as weather, geography and range, allowing test pilots to prove the aircraft's "full capabilities against the full range of required threats and scenarios,"
DoD - This final phase of IOT&E will occur when the JSE is ready to adequately complete the testing //The JSE is required to adequately perform F-35 IOT&E against modern adversary aircraft and dense ground threats in realistic scenarios // require high-fidelity F-35, weapons, threat and environmental models to be able to provide the operationally representative scenarios and data required to complete IOT&E
LM "We have delivered on all requirements for this software to be integrated with NAVAIR's JSE and are providing our full support to ensure successful integration and testing as soon as possible,"

From <https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... debut.html>

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 20 Oct 2019, 12:32
by S M H
NickC wrote:What is of concern that until IOT&E/F-35 In-A-Box' (FIAB) completed that any of the UK buy of current aircraft might not be able to be bought up to full specification or require expensively upgrades, making actual number of our limited buy of F-35 fully operational capable fewer still, presume one reason why simulation for FIAB is required as it will require Block 4/TR3 (incl'd new software and more powerful computers) upgrades planned for Lot 15 a/c due for delivery in 2023.
That makes our procurement of enough aircraft to cover basic operational carrier operations sensible. Procuring the later is finantualy prudent. As the later aircraft will not require expensive upgrades and with full rate production cheaper than the present fly away cost.