UK Defence Forum

Rule Britannia

The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.

The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.

NickC wrote:The Pentagon has approved F-35 Block 4 programme nearly a year later than JPO anticipated, but has refused to reveal the cost and schedule. Earlier estimate for R&D was $10.8B, UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content, and for US $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 out to FY2024, costs for UK ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor not mentioned. Its troubling as you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.

The full complete Block 4 software capabilities will need TR3 hardware (incl'd major computer update) to F-35 to operate, TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.

Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.

NickC wrote:Forgot to mention that think its one reason that why UK needed to request authority to buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.

That's true for F-35B, I think it's a realistic hedge on block 4 being done in time. In a way Block 4 dictates the real Full Operating Capability for the UK and CEPP. Without Block 4 we're limited to legacy Amraam (C5), legacy Asraam and Paveway IV. That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book. Until SPEAR, Asraam CSP, Meteor and the new Paveway 4 capabilities (moving target and penetrator) are onboard we're way short of a full set. In fact even with those I think we're short of a few capabilities (JSM type for antiship/long range precision strike, anti-radiation missile and a decent glide kit for PWIV).

I think it was also to arm T1 Typhoon as well to their OSD in 2030 as the current Amraam C-5's were in need of an life extension. I can't find out if the Amraam D purchase has supplanted the proposed life extension on our existing C5 stocks, hopefully not. Meteor production will probably take a while to ramp up as well, and we have to wonder how many of those we'll actually buy...in many ways I'd have been happier with a re-life of the C-5's to get us to 2030 and an increased Meteor buy. But I suspect the powers that be have done the number crunching.

NickC wrote:you could interprete the move to hide cost growth and further schedule slippage.

One could...

NickC wrote: TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.

So we get a couple of the 'real' thing towards the tail end of our early purchases

NickC wrote:buy up to 200 Raytheon AIM-120Ds for $650M to equip to the F-35B, as Meteor requires a Block 4 update, expected in 2025.

which will only start to be kitted out to spec a year later

Timmymagic wrote:That's a Tranche 1 Typhoon's capability from 2010 in 2024.....not a full capability in anyone's book

Not at all

Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?

Don't know if this is what you're looking for....

SDL wrote:Just double checking something here.... how much of the F35 is built in the UK?

^ from an RAF tweet, dated 23 Aug 2018

Thanks. thought we were building more TBH...

It’s not even that much some of that is at RR and BAEs sites in the states. Other bits of BAE classed strutures is already duel sourced with other parties to the East. What is actually manufactured in the uk is not representative with those graphics anymore.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10373 ... acron-news


>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...

sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...

It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.

It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.

SDL wrote:Thanks. thought we were building more TBH...

The aft fuse parts are pretty hefty pieces of kit - made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy.

http://www.builditsoftware.com/2012/08/ ... rousel-117

The UK needs to knock out 6000 of these types of object, not bad considering how many we'll end up getting ....

Defiance wrote:made and assembled in Samlesbury and shipped off to Fort Worth or Italy

The line in Japan was also bid for, but for undisclosed reasons (and surely cost was not among them) the bid was turned down.

RetroSicotte wrote:

sunstersun wrote:>Another 90 of the cheaper A variant are planned.

these clowns...

It's the Express, and it's a sourceless random line. Likely just they haven't kept up enough and are saying what they think they know.

It's still a possibility, but I wouldn't treat that report as a reveal.

I am sure this is one of the item under review as part of the MDP. Has anyone a rough idea of how much the MoD could save/gain by purchasing the A variant instead of the B for the 90 or so outstanding airframes assuming will still buy our stated number?

Lot 11 prices are $89.2m for the A and $115.5m for the B (the C is $107.7if you're interested). With prices expected to drop again in the next Lot...

So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.

If the Politian's are persuaded to do a split buy (to get up to the original 138), then I think an equal split of A's and B's would be the best option (with RN taking the B's )

Little J wrote: do a split buy (to get up to the original 138)

We will get there (some time in the 40s; and by then Dave will come with version D, too. Might not translate to a B'D' but we will see. After all, we are buying capability, not versions).

(BAE Systems) 31 Oct 2018

As the F-35 first of class flight trials get underway, we speak with the people who have been central to making this piece of aviation and naval history on-board HMS Queen Elizabeth.

Thread name changed.

Lord Jim wrote:So that is a minimum of £2Bn difference at those prices. Not exactly chicken feed though I know things are never this simple.

Probably cost that much to add boom refueling to the tankers.

But at least then we could also refuel our P-7s, P-8s, EC-135s and C-17s, and also friendly USAF planes using contactless payment on the go

I'll step aside and let you renegotiate the tanker PFI to allow that

Something that should have been done to the core fleet of voyager from the beginning, but renegotiating the Tanker PFI should be undertaken with great trepidation. Mind you everyone likes to make more money and Airbus would be keen to do the work, I mean the RAF operating a boom and drogue MRTT is good for their business. And the RAF gains additional flexibility and capability. If I was confident in the MoD commercial abilities I would push for it but then again.