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F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.

How do you feel about the F-35B for the RN and RAF? (2 votes per member)

GOOD choice for the Royal Navy
110
45%
BAD choice for the Royal Navy
9
4%
Uncertain (RN)
11
5%
GOOD choice for the Royal Air Force
44
18%
BAD choice for the Royal Air Force
35
14%
Uncertain (RAF)
35
14%
 
Total votes: 244

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 28 Sep 2018, 17:55

NickC wrote:Lockheed have awarded contract to Harris contract for the new F-35 Integrated Core Processor for “Technology Refresh 3” modernisation. ICP is the brains for processing data for the aircraft’s communications, sensors, electronic warfare, guidance and control, cockpit and helmet displays. The new ICP will be integrated into F-35 aircraft starting with Lot 15 aircraft, expected to begin deliveries in 2023.

Claimed benefits
A) 25 times increase in computing power to support planned capability enhancements
B) Greater software stability, higher reliability, and increased diagnostics resulting in lower sustainment costs
C) An Open System Architecture to enable the flexibility to add, upgrade and update future capabilities
D) 75 percent reduction in unit cost

The F-35 Technology Refresh 3 to date also include the Panoramic Cockpit Display Electronic Unit and Aircraft Memory System plus the new Raytheon Next Gen Distributed Aperture System.

Raises the question should UK delay/minimise any future F-35B buy until Lot 15 by which time may be Block 4 available for Meteor, Spear 3 and ASRAAM CSM, would no doubt save substantial costs of upgrading earlier aircraft.


The Treasury manages defense spending to minimize annual spend. They don't give a sh*t if the overall program cost grows as a result.

SDL
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SDL » 28 Sep 2018, 17:56



Hope the pilot is okay

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 28 Sep 2018, 17:57

I thought this was an excellent video of the F-35B strike on Afghanistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcI82IonhF4

Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 28 Sep 2018, 18:23

Also from Luis Martinez's account, latest prices for F-35.


SDL
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SDL » 28 Sep 2018, 18:35

What was the B cost before?

bobp
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby bobp » 28 Sep 2018, 19:00

Ron5 wrote: thought this was an excellent video of the F-35B strike on Afghanistan.



Nice video Ron first one I have seen with Gun Pods fitted.

jonas
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby jonas » 29 Sep 2018, 09:39

Anyone know how many aircraft (if any) will be included in LRIP 11 :-

https://news.usni.org/2018/09/28/pentag ... 5-contract

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SW1 » 29 Sep 2018, 09:55

Jonas

141 a/c in lrip 11. 1 for the uk

Little J
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Little J » 29 Sep 2018, 12:57

Good old Auntie, their Web homepage has headline "US military fighter jet 'worth £100m' crashes".

Not, "jet crashes, pilot safe", :roll:

jonas
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby jonas » 29 Sep 2018, 14:43

SW1 wrote:Jonas

141 a/c in lrip 11. 1 for the uk


Much appreciated, thanks

Pongoglo
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Pongoglo » 29 Sep 2018, 18:23

bobp wrote:
Ron5 wrote: thought this was an excellent video of the F-35B strike on Afghanistan.



Nice video Ron first one I have seen with Gun Pods fitted.


Yeah good spot. First I have seen with gun pods too - looking good. Like the Stars and Stripes on the VSTOL flap - was rather hoping we would see the White Ensign there :-). As they have clearly got the gun pod working and cleared for ops I wonder if we will see them fitted to our 'B' s too ? Now don't be silly - obviously not !

Lord Jim
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 30 Sep 2018, 01:08

Are we even purchasing any Gun Pods for ours?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 30 Sep 2018, 07:51

Lord Jim wrote:Are we even purchasing any Gun Pods for ours?


Far too expensive as an a/c to be used for CAS (save for the USMC who are the favourite child of the US Congress).

But all in all, the situation smacks of 1983 - back to the future. Then the European airforces were agonising over how to make the transition from WVR fighters to BVR, without losing the numbers as such planes were bound to be more costly. Now the same game is about introducing enough stealth and sensor fusion, in order to avoid being totally "outgunned".
- "European air forces continued to show interest in the idea of a common European design, and in late 1983 a common European requirement for the Future European Fighter Aircraft (FEFA soon changed to EFA). "
- In the end, the USAF replaced their Phantoms with the longer ranging, agile BVR F-15, whereas the USN replaced theirs with smaller and lighter F/A-18, compromising top end BVR performance in favour of numbers and strike capability. The RAF and Luftwaffe, the leaders in the EFA, rolled the equivalent of the USAF and USN Phantom replacements into a single F/A-18 sized airframe.
- come forward: Tempest and the Franco-German joint fighter project, both of which, as free-standing projects are bound to produce as such excellent airplanes, but suffer the F-22/ B-2 fate of being too expensive due to being the bleeding edge and produced in too low numbers

Anything else in common? I thought it interesting that in the 6th gen piece posted by Frenchie (on the French forces thread) size/ range was quoted as a factor for the US Navy not going to do the "all-in-one" package again, but rather keep the Super Hornets on the side of the new plane... where does that leave the F-35C? Hasten to add that the link was not to an official USN piece.
- sounds like the Rafale XL idea, first mentioned by the French AF chief wooing the Belgian parliamentarians, but now resurfacing in the specs that are in the process of being fixed for the Franco-German design

End note: the only design from the previous round that was designed for a single role ended up yielding the finest long range strike a/c aka Strike Eagle. A class act that took long to follow: Su-34 and, we'll see, the F-35 in its "C" incarnation

Lord Jim
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 30 Sep 2018, 22:38

I have a feeling that the RAF is going to have to get by with both the Typhoon and F-35B for decades to come regardless of the current OSD for the former. I cannot see another manned combat platform entering service until the end of the 2040s at the earliest. Whether we see a fully fledged UCAV in the meantime is another matter.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SW1 » 30 Sep 2018, 22:54

LJ

That is the plan 7 typhoon 2 f35 until 2040. The question for team tempest is what replaces typhoon. The preferred option it seems is a uk fighter program, should that prove uneconomical then the answer is likely to be a variant of the f35 and we become an all f35 force and end the uk military aviation fast jet industry. But that is the choice.

Scimitar54
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Scimitar54 » 01 Oct 2018, 03:30

If that was the plan, there would be absolutely no need for the RAF to be involved with the F35 at all! The aircraft would be an FAA exclusive programme. You are making far too many assertions on here, which are at best misleading, or possibly even malign. :idea:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Oct 2018, 08:33

SW1 wrote:That is the plan 7 typhoon 2 f35 until 2040. The question for team tempest is what replaces typhoon. The preferred option it seems is a uk fighter program, should that prove uneconomical then the answer is likely to be a variant of the f35 and we become an all f35 force and end the uk military aviation fast jet industry. But that is the choice.


2040 is only where Tranche 3 takes us. As RUSI (the commissioned author) wrote about the EF/ Typhoon: The Best is yet to come...
- what Luftwaffe will get as a Tornado replacement is unlikely to be identical to Tr3's, to begin with

What can be said with confidence is that the RAF is unlikely to go any higher than 2 types in what they will operate.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SW1 » 01 Oct 2018, 08:54

Acc

We will now see a more incremental “rapid” integration of capabilities with typhoon as all variants are sheduled to stay with the RAF until 2040

Lord Jim
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 01 Oct 2018, 09:40

"Tempest" is going to be a slow burner programme and I will be very surprised and a lot older if a platform is ready by 2040 to replace the Typhoon. I strongly believe we will follow the US and introduce a fully fledged low vis UCAV to supplement the two manned platforms before we introduce a new manned one.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby SW1 » 01 Oct 2018, 14:05

Scimitar54 wrote:If that was the plan, there would be absolutely no need for the RAF to be involved with the F35 at all! The aircraft would be an FAA exclusive programme. You are making far too many assertions on here, which are at best misleading, or possibly even malign. :idea:


Fair enough you don’t need to believe me I’m not bothered! But that is what sdsr15 has directed and what sqn standup is following

NickC
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby NickC » 03 Oct 2018, 10:05

F-35 briefing update by Vice Adm. Winter head of JPO Washington yesterday

F-35’s Block 4 modernisation plan with its 'agile' software updates has yet to be signed off, though expected shortly by DOD Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment Ellen Lord.

The March initial estimate was $16 billion for Block 4 modernization, $10.8 billion for development (UK contribution will be 4.5% for 'common' content and assuming 100% for UK missiles) and $5.4 billion for procurement of upgrades to the F-35 between fiscal years 2018 through 2024.

A total of 53 capabilities to be included in Block 4, which range from updated software to a suite of new weapons like the Small Diameter Bomb II (presumably ASRAAM CSM, SPEAR 3 & Meteor included).

About 22 of the modifications will require the F-35 to include Technology Refresh 3.

(TR3 - The new computer with 25x power, panoramic cockpit display electronic unit, aircraft memory system and the new DAS (as yet no mention if the new generation silicon tech IR in an Advanced EOTS to be included, the new tech in current upgrades to the F-15 & F-18 and the new Litening, Sniper and Talios pods, another item have not seen mentioned was the inclusion of SAR capability in the radar slipped from Block 3.6 - TR3 planned to be built into LRIP 15 a/c due for delivery 2023.)

Whether US aircraft will be upgraded depends on funding and operational requirements, same for UK.

The delayed IOT&E due to commence mid-November lasting ~ a year which if successful, Milestone C, allow full rate production decision end of 2019.

Winter did not mention of ALIS

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/10 ... tion-exec/

Lord Jim
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 03 Oct 2018, 10:50

I am starting to think that instead of demanding that CASD be taken out of the defence budget, the F-35 programme should be removed and transferred to the DTI's as UK content and workshare seems to be to most important aspect of the programme with affordability and availability of airframes a distant second.

Little J
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Little J » 03 Oct 2018, 11:55

To be fair, that could be said for everything the MoD buys ;)

But to be honest, I do think that MoD should only pay unit price and maintenance - Development (R&D) cost's should be someone else's problem...

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Ianmb17
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Ianmb17 » 08 Oct 2018, 19:05

Sorry if already posted
Google maps has f35 at rnas culdrose I know they are for deck handling
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning II (RN & RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 08 Oct 2018, 20:55

I wonder if they are real ones or just mock ups for practice.


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