F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[The Armchair Soldier]

Four RAF Lightnings came alongside the10 Sqn Voyager over the eastern US coastline before starting the first fully RAF crewed air to air refuelling sorties for the new stealth jet.

[The Armchair Soldier]

[NickC]

The Pentagon is refusing to take delivery of the ex-factory LM F-35s due to contractual disputes, not the first time. Last year deliveries were stopped for 30 days due to manufacturing defects affecting more than 200 aircraft.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lock ... SKBN1HI304

[Gabriele]

The stop to "most" deliveries actually amounts to 3 USAF, 1 Australian and 1 Norway F-35A so far. But anyway...

Actual news is that the SDD phase is now over. Last sortie flown by an F-35C with BAE test pilot Pete 'Wizzer' Wilson on 11 april.

Also, adm. Winter presented the status of the programme at Sea Air Space.

[NickC]

As set forth by US statute and regulation, if SDD phase, Milestone B now finished to pass to Milestone C, the last milestone before full-rate production can be authorised, the following must be achieved.

• the production design must be stable,
• the system must pass developmental testing and operational assessment,
• software must meet the predetermined maturity,
• the system must demonstrate that it is interoperable with other relevant systems and can be supported operationally,
• estimated costs must be within the cost caps,
• the program must have full funding for the length of the Future Years Defense Program,
• the Capability Production Document must be approved
• the Milestone Decision Authority must approve the updated Acquisition Strategy

As the initial operational test and evaluation, IOT&E, #2 on list, won’t begin until late 2018, Milestone C impossible and would be very dubious on the others, especially the software. Presume Admiral Winters, head of F-35 JPO, does not claim Milestone C has been achieved if so the law bent beyond recognition, pork barrel politics rule , otherwise F-35 still stuck in Milestone B, Engineering and Manufacturing Development Phase.

[NickC]

Actual news is that the SDD phase is now over. Last sortie flown by an F-35C with BAE test pilot Pete 'Wizzer' Wilson on 11 april.

Also, adm. Winter presented the status of the programme at Sea Air Space.

Aviation Week April 12 "F-35 Completes Flight Trials, Now On To Final Test" as thought confirmation that above statement incorrect, SDD phase continues with IOT&E trials starting in September 2018..

"But while completing flight tests is a significant milestone, the F-35’s $55 billion development phase, called System Development and Demonstration (SDD), won’t be over until the aircraft successfully completes its final exam, initial operational test and evaluation (IOT&E), and the Pentagon approves Lockheed to begin full-rate production. IOT&E is scheduled to begin in September 2018."

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-co ... 3a7bf03c81

[sunstersun]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ller-25416

how good are the F-35 sensors? Well they shot down two drones with 1 missile.

[Dahedd]

I think its 2 missiles, 2 drones. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

[R686]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ller-25416

how good are the F-35 sensors? Well they shot down two drones with 1 missile.

Two AMRAAMs had multiple targets - to shoot two airborne targets simultaneously

[sunstersun]

whoops, sorry guys. i was a bit drunk.

anyways still impressive.

[NickC]

Norwegian MoD April 16th stating that full operational capability with their F-35A should be reached in 2025 with the integration of the JSM anti-ship missile with C2D2/Block 4 update.

Re. Gabriele post above of new Block 4 graphic you could infer that similar timescale applicable to integration/FOC of 2025 for ASRAAM CSP, Meteor and Spear Capability 1,3, the graphic itself mentions no dates.

[Gabriele]

ASRAAM CSP should be a really quick software fix and might come as soon as the first release of Block 4 software, at the beginning of the 2020s. The Paveway IV bunker-buster warhead (main item, but maybe not the only one, grouped under SPEAR Cap 1) should also be a quick thing, mostly software only, since externally the bomb's profile is unchanged. SPEAR 3 and Meteor were always expected to take longer. The full package should be operational by 2025/2026. That is no change, at this stage, from the earlier timeframe.

[ArmChairCivvy]

. SPEAR 3 and Meteor were always expected to take longer. The full package should be operational by 2025/2026. That is no change, at this stage, from the earlier timeframe.

This is the crux of (RAF's) airpower question:
Things will be in place, but the ability to degrade an air defence system is predicated on fairly low-ranged weapons; will the stealth part of the equation be able to compensate?

[Ron5]

Spear 3 has decent range surely? The F-35B after all, has to get close enough to ID targets before firing.

[RetroSicotte]

Around 100-140km based on estimates.

A Spear with an anti-radiation seeker-mode would be excellent though, best of both worlds. Carrying 8 ARMs internally would be something truly special for SEAD.

[Ron5]

Around 100-140km based on estimates.

A Spear with an anti-radiation seeker-mode would be excellent though, best of both worlds. Carrying 8 ARMs internally would be something truly special for SEAD.

The F-35 will do a far better job locating enemy radar than any missile could possibly do. Once located, Spear 3 will knock them out.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Around 100-140km based on estimates.

A Spear with an anti-radiation seeker-mode would be excellent though, best of both worlds. Carrying 8 ARMs internally would be something truly special for SEAD.

The F-35 will do a far better job locating enemy radar than any missile could possibly do. Once located, Spear 3 will knock them out.

Agreed. But it is a rather light-weight "munition" so the job better be completed as the follow on for the "stand-off" is from more "over the target" weapons:
"The Spear 3, a follow-on to Paveway IV and Brimstone missiles (Spear Cap 1 and 2 respectively), is a 100 kg missile under development as the primary air-to-surface weapon for the Royal Navy’s F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the Royal Air Force’s GR4 Typhoon aircraft. The missile is designed to defeat mobile and relocatable targets, in all weather and day/night environments "

[Ron5]

Fortunately radar antennae are rather soft targets.

[indeid]

Fortunately radar antennae are rather soft targets.

Depend on what they are protected by

I do get the desire for an ARM, but they are so dependent on an up to threat library that the performance could vary massively from system to system. Especially now export systems are often different to the original. That said they can keep AD operators on edge, lots of stories of systems shutting down or implementing war modes just on hearing the codeword for an ARM launch.

Problem for me is that with so many areas needing cash, there are other things which come first.

[RetroSicotte]

Depend on what they are protected by

I can't recall ever seeing an air defence radar under armour.

[Ron5]

That said they can keep AD operators on edge, lots of stories of systems shutting down or implementing war modes just on hearing the codeword for an ARM launch.

A problem avoided by the F-35/SPEAR 3 combo. Once located, doesn't matter if the radar is turned off or not.

ARM missiles are for aircraft that don't have F-35 level of capability.

[indeid]

Depend on what they are protected by

I can't recall ever seeing an air defence radar under armour.

I never mentioned armour!

A problem avoided by the F-35/SPEAR 3 combo. Once located, doesn't matter if the radar is turned off or not.

ARM missiles are for aircraft that don't have F-35 level of capability.

That there is the point, having an ARM shooter in the package gives you a different option for systems which you haven't found/fixed yet. I don't see the UK not having such a weapon as a major issue, but the capability does still have merit.

In a way this goes to show the UK needs to keep pushing its ISR capabilities to get the most out of future systems. The recently reported lack of Int Anaylists goes to show that equipment isn't the only focus.

[RetroSicotte]

I can't recall ever seeing an air defence radar under armour.

I'm a little confused then. What protection are you referring to about radars that a Spear wouldn't be able to handle on impact?

[indeid]

I'm a little confused then. What protection are you referring to about radars that a Spear wouldn't be able to handle on impact?

My point was that systems are layered so that you no longer fire a weapon at a long range radar and return for tea and medals, if you can't get the incoming aircraft, you go for the weapon its dropped.

That said, I have seen some interesting methods for 'hardening' radars, especially ones with extendable masts. Maybe we need to start attaching earth moving kit to our GBAD units.......

[SKB]

and return for tea and medals

Woof!