Ya think price might have something to do with that?SW1 wrote:https://aviationweek.com/ad-week/rising ... es-outlook
The U.S.-led F-35 Joint Program Office declared in 2009 that total sales of the F-35 could reach 6,000, but more than a decade later government and Lockheed officials prefer to size the global market at around 4,000. Even the more modest projection may depend on maintaining the original orderbook of the U.S. Air Force, the program’s largest customer, with an official requirement for 1,763 F-35As.
Although Air Force leadership remains fully committed, cracks have appeared in the service’s long-term programming. In March, Air Combat Command (ACC) announced a goal to achieve a long-term fighter fleet composed of 60% F-35s and Lockheed F-22s and 40% among Boeing F-15s, Lockheed F-16s and Fairchild Republic A-10s. The Air Force inventory today counts about 2,190 fighters overall, leaving room for a total of about 1,315 F-22s and F-35s combined to achieve the 60% goal. If about 180 F-22s are removed from the equation, the Air Force would be left with a total fleet requirement for 1,135 F-35As.
F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
And I think they are starting to realise that the F-35 isn't ideally suited to all the roles originally envisaged for it, and that other platforms can do the job such as new build F-15s and F-16s for example.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Parliamentary written answers 22nd July 2020 :-
Asked by Mr Kevan Jones
(North Durham)
[N]
Asked on: 17 July 2020
Ministry of Defence
Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft
75990
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many UK F-35 pilots have been converted to the F-35 through training establishments in the (a) UK and (b) US in (i) 2018-19 and (ii) 2019-20.
A
Answered by: James Heappey
Answered on: 22 July 2020
In Financial Year 2018-19, 14 UK F-35 pilots were trained in the United States; whilst in Financial Year 2019-20, six UK F-35 pilot were trained in the United States. No pilots completed their training in the UK within the years requested.
Q
Asked by Mr Kevan Jones
(North Durham)
[N]
Asked on: 17 July 2020
Ministry of Defence
Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft
75991
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many pilots have been converted onto the F-35 via 207 Squadron in (a) 2018-19 and (b) 2019-20.
Answered by: James Heappey
Answered on: 22 July 2020
No pilots completed their training on 207 Squadron in the UK within the years requested.
Asked by Mr Kevan Jones
(North Durham)
[N]
Asked on: 17 July 2020
Ministry of Defence
Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft
75990
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many UK F-35 pilots have been converted to the F-35 through training establishments in the (a) UK and (b) US in (i) 2018-19 and (ii) 2019-20.
A
Answered by: James Heappey
Answered on: 22 July 2020
In Financial Year 2018-19, 14 UK F-35 pilots were trained in the United States; whilst in Financial Year 2019-20, six UK F-35 pilot were trained in the United States. No pilots completed their training in the UK within the years requested.
Q
Asked by Mr Kevan Jones
(North Durham)
[N]
Asked on: 17 July 2020
Ministry of Defence
Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft
75991
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many pilots have been converted onto the F-35 via 207 Squadron in (a) 2018-19 and (b) 2019-20.
Answered by: James Heappey
Answered on: 22 July 2020
No pilots completed their training on 207 Squadron in the UK within the years requested.
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Not a bad couple of questions to ask, but he's missed a trick about asking about the pipeline over the next few years in the US and UK separately and when more pilots will arrive. And if the MFTS debacle is causing more problems in the build up.
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Something like “Will the current rate of training new F35 pilots in 207 Squadron RAF.allow the second F35b squadron to be Stood-up by 2023 as planned and if not, how long will that be delayed”?
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
And will sufficient F35B be delivered on time to allow this to happen.Scimitar54 wrote:Something like “Will the current rate of training new F35 pilots in 207 Squadron RAF.allow the second F35b squadron to be Stood-up by 2023 as planned and if not, how long will that be delayed”?
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
For someone who loves to scream that posts are off topic, you're pretty comfortable going OT yourself.SKB wrote:More F-35B trees should be planted to speed up the harvest.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Scimitar54 wrote:Something like “Will the current rate of training new F35 pilots in 207 Squadron RAF.allow the second F35b squadron to be Stood-up by 2023 as planned and if not, how long will that be delayed”?
They would use opsec to dodge such questions.bobp wrote:And will sufficient F35B be delivered on time to allow this to happen.Scimitar54 wrote:Something like “Will the current rate of training new F35 pilots in 207 Squadron RAF.allow the second F35b squadron to be Stood-up by 2023 as planned and if not, how long will that be delayed”?
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Teasing the RAF?dmereifield wrote:What are Italian F35's doing at Marham?
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Returning the visit made by 617 Squadron F35b on the return leg of the first RAF overseas deployment to Akrotiri, last year?
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Would be better if it was Italian F-35bs coming to do some cross decking on the carrier
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
The Italians have gone for a split buy of F35A/B.
Their current F35B fleet is tiny and in any event it is probably too early to say but (assuming adequate transparency) over time their experience could be relevant to the merits of a UK split buy.
@Gabriel64869839 may be able to provide some relevant insight.
Their current F35B fleet is tiny and in any event it is probably too early to say but (assuming adequate transparency) over time their experience could be relevant to the merits of a UK split buy.
@Gabriel64869839 may be able to provide some relevant insight.
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Don't get him started on the *merits* of a split buy for the UKBring Deeps wrote:The Italians have gone for a split buy of F35A/B.
Their current F35B fleet is tiny and in any event it is probably too early to say but (assuming adequate transparency) over time their experience could be relevant to the merits of a UK split buy.
@Gabriel64869839 may be able to provide some relevant insight.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Got lost? It was a bit cloudy.Little J wrote:Teasing the RAF?dmereifield wrote:What are Italian F35's doing at Marham?
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
And about as reliable as this oneSKB wrote:Interesting infographic.
"The ASCOD SV programme is British to its bootstraps, delivering a Military off the Shelf vehicle with British design by British engineers to the British Army while safeguarding or creating 10,600 jobs for British workers.”
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Yep, if Indianapolis was in the UK the LiftFans would be manufactured in the UK.SW1 wrote:And about as reliable as this one
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
The key bit is 'United Kingdom Industrial Participation'...so all the BAE and RR work in the US counts to the total. Which is then contradicted in the bottom right blue box where it states 'with 15% of the value...manufactured in the UK', which I don't think anyone actually believes any more...SKB wrote:Interesting infographic.
Beginning to think either they don't know themselves, their PR teams are either terrible and can't stick to a set line...or they don't know how to extricate themselves from a colossal lie.
Add in the 3,000 aircraft production run...the suspicion is that 2500 is more likely now, which is down from the 3500-4000 not that long ago.
It may well be that with a lower % of the total value. lower % made in the UK and the lower production volumes bought that it all makes sense financially still (let alone the other reasons for procurement). But obfuscating around this isn't actually helping their cause.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Scimitar54 wrote:Something like “Will the current rate of training new F35 pilots in 207 Squadron RAF.allow the second F35b squadron to be Stood-up by 2023 as planned and if not, how long will that be delayed”?
The problem with speculative questions like those are the government simply answers that it is that it is their current intention or aspiration to meet the current schedule.bobp wrote:And will sufficient F35B be delivered on time to allow this to happen.
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Well it hurts no one for ministers to be given the opportunity to “come clean”. If they refuse to do so and the target date is then allowed to slip, it will call into question (at the very least) their capability and at the worst, their veracity.
Either way, their card (as a minister) will have been indelibly marked!
Either way, their card (as a minister) will have been indelibly marked!
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
I don't know how old this graphic is but is clearly states two things:SKB wrote:Interesting infographic.
Firstly that UK companies has helped the F-35 program in the areas pictured in the top half and listed in the left corner.
Secondly that $13.55 billion has been generated in contracts for the UK and that 15% by value of each F-35 is manufactured in the UK.
It could have added, but didn't, that UK owned companies in the USA have also added a great deal more, in my opinion lead by BAE supplying the EW software for the entire program.
It could have added but didn't, that UK arms of the multinational MBDA, have added significant vakue to the UK F-35's through their development and supply of ASRAAM, Meteor & Spear.
I do assure you that the British companies mentioned in the graphic: Bae & Rolls Royce in particular are very proud of their contributions, as are their share holders.
Some of you don't believe some or any of this but you have offered exactly zero in facts to support your beliefs. But then again, you belong to one of the most miserable species on the planet earth, the whinging poms.
PS Ajax is virtually a brand new vehicle, very little is left by value of the original ASCOD.
PPS If the UK would like to step aside, Texas, California, Washington, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, South Korea .... would gladly pick up the 15%.
Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)
Also BAE UK are the lead design authority for the fuel system (all variants). Anyone thinking the UK doesn't benefit hugely from this program needs their head examined.
F-35 was my first stint in the business, it's very beneficial to the UK.
F-35 was my first stint in the business, it's very beneficial to the UK.