F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

[R686]

It is also not bad to remember that 180 rounds is what the Tornado GR4 has for its gun; 30 rounds more than the Typhoon has; and 55 rounds more than Rafale has. Different calibres and multi-barrel versus single barrel, but still. Really not sure why people get that shocked regarding the gun's ammo reserve. Scary stories regarding the F-35 have made people paranoid.

it is when you compare F35A to US legacy teen series aircraft for which it was designed to replace, all in excess of 500rds.
But what I find interesting that the USN gave up the internal gun on the F35C as one of its primary roles will be an air & surface interceptor for the fleet, wonder if they will have the gun pod as a permanent fixture on CAP aircraft? its easier to get someone attention and possible intent with a few shots

[Old RN]

When comparing rounds just be careful with the effect of calibre. For the same form factor of the bullet a 27mm round is 2.46x the mass of a 20mm round (simple cube of the calibre)

[R686]

When comparing rounds just be careful with the effect of calibre. For the same form factor of the bullet a 27mm round is 2.46x the mass of a 20mm round (simple cube of the calibre)

correct teen series are 20mm compared to 25mm for the F35,but I would not think you would lose 50% plus between the two

[Old RN]

20mm to 25mm size difference is 25/20 ^ 3 = 1.95. For the same form shape a 25mm round is twice the throw weight of a 20mm. I remember when the USMC got the AV8A with the 30mm Aden cannon they were stagged by the impact of 30mm rounds vs the 20mm they were used to!

[The Armchair Soldier]

A four-ship F-35 formation, including one of the UK's:

[Ron5]

To hell with stealth, really need to bring back some of those old FAA color schemes. Look positively drab.

[jonas]

A completely different take on the F35 v F16 discussion :-

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/what ... nk-pilots/

[Geoff_B]

Its a moot point anyway, its the Joint Strike Fighter, its design focus was a common service Strike Aircraft with secondary Fighter capability, if it was a fighter first they would have made a single engined F-22 instead. From a UK point of view thats fine its got excellent interceptor capabilities for Naval CAP, and excellent strike potential, and will complement the Typhoon which was designed to dogfight, with a secondary strike role.

Afterall the US are now developing the NGAD & F/A-XX as a 6th generation Fighter with Strike capability to replace Eagle and Super Hornet respectively (and hopefully without the woefully poor F-35 design process that has plagued and slowed its development !).

An interesting note is the the simulator testing mentioned in the comments puts 4 F-35 v 8 enemy at a 1 to 6 kill ratio but ionly for the period 2015-2020. A bit daft as the actual F-35 won't really be ready to mix it up untill 2020 with development and testing complete and full production aircraft. The other point is does that mean that post 2020, the potential foe won't be just the fukcrum/flanker mix the F-35 was designed to counter, but new unknowns of types such as Pak-fa, J-20 & J-31 designed and developed after the F-35 ?

[raven111]

Its a moot point anyway, its the Joint Strike Fighter, its design focus was a common service Strike Aircraft with secondary Fighter capability, if it was a fighter first they would have made a single engined F-22 instead. From a UK point of view thats fine its got excellent interceptor capabilities for Naval CAP, and excellent strike potential, and will complement the Typhoon which was designed to dogfight, with a secondary strike role.

Afterall the US are now developing the NGAD & F/A-XX as a 6th generation Fighter with Strike capability to replace Eagle and Super Hornet respectively (and hopefully without the woefully poor F-35 design process that has plagued and slowed its development !).

An interesting note is the the simulator testing mentioned in the comments puts 4 F-35 v 8 enemy at a 1 to 6 kill ratio but ionly for the period 2015-2020. A bit daft as the actual F-35 won't really be ready to mix it up untill 2020 with development and testing complete and full production aircraft. The other point is does that mean that post 2020, the potential foe won't be just the fukcrum/flanker mix the F-35 was designed to counter, but new unknowns of types such as Pak-fa, J-20 & J-31 designed and developed after the F-35 ?

“Operationally, we have to have it,” says Air Force chief of staff Gen. Mark Welsh. “The decision to truncate the F-22 buy has left us in a position where even to provide air superiority [we need the F-35], which was not the original intent of the F-35 development.”

So just because we don't need it to be an Air Superiority fighter rather than an interceptor doesn't mean that holds true for everyone.

[Gabriele]

Even assuming the "F-35 can't dogfight" crowd is right (and i've already explained why i think their lecture of the leaked report does not reflect what the report actually says), in front of their "the tactic to beat the F-35 is close the distance and force a dogfight" comment i wonder:

if you were a pilot, you'd really prefer to be on the fighter which has to rush through the F-35's BVR capability to get to the merge and play it out in a dogfight? I'd want to be on the F-35, thank you very much.

[RetroSicotte]

It all just stems from this relentless "1 vs 1 STRONGEST WINS" crowd in aviation enthusiasm.

The more you scale up the numbers, the more and more the F-35 becomes outrageously in favour with "overall picture". It's the strategic scale you need to look at. (I say to those arguing this dogfight nonsense)

Tactics might win some battles. Strategy wins wars.

[seaspear]

Wouldn't also a number of f35,s engaged against a number of other aircraft have another advantage of sharing data on situational awareness and be able to respond accordingly not relying on eyeball contact

[shark bait]

“Operationally, we have to have it,” says Air Force chief of staff Gen. Mark Welsh. “The decision to truncate the F-22 buy has left us in a position where even to provide air superiority [we need the F-35], which was not the original intent of the F-35 development.”

So just because we don't need it to be an Air Superiority fighter rather than an interceptor doesn't mean that holds true for everyone.

I had not seen that qoute before, perhaps we should sell them back some typhoons !

I actually believe the PR bullshit about the Typhoon and F35 working well together, we are in a quite good situation. But then again we be operating 2 of the most expensive aircraft in the air so probably won't manage enough numbers to be useful.

[shark bait]

Wouldn't also a number of f35,s engaged against a number of other aircraft have another advantage of sharing data on situational awareness and be able to respond accordingly not relying on eyeball contact

I completely agree, vastly superior sensors, weaponry and stealth will give the F35 the edge and it shouldn't ever need to be in a dog fight if the pilot plays it right.

[seaspear]

How would the Eurofighter receive the data from the F35 on situational awareness and prioritising

[arfah]

..................

[marktigger]

were are the UK F35's going to be assembled?

[Gabriele]

were are the UK F35's going to be assembled?

Fort Worth, unless something big pops up between UK and Italy and later assemblies move to Cameri in exchange for Italy buying into something else. Like, possibly, training of crews in Marham's future training centre, and/or shared Meteor F-35 integration cost or something.
But i'd say just Fort Worth is more likely.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Good point by G.

There is some room room in the helicopter space (but the deal would run the wrong way, bcz Agusta is the main company and Westland the sub). The next-gen MBT would be another possibility, but again: UK is not a player in that space anymore, and the two main players in Europe (counting Turkey and Russia out, as the majority of their land mass is not in Europe) have paved the way for the next-gen project by a merger of their respective companies.

[xav]

Has this been shared before ?

F-35 reality check
https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/201 ... ity-check/

It "seems" very technical and the guy "seems" like he knows what he is talking about (I am not Engineer...)

but on the other hand, it is quite negative overall so it might not be that "fair and balanced".

[-Eddie-]

Has this been shared before ?

F-35 reality check
https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/201 ... ity-check/

It "seems" very technical and the guy "seems" like he knows what he is talking about (I am not Engineer...)

but on the other hand, it is quite negative overall so it might not be that "fair and balanced".

He's a Rafale fanboy, as evidenced by reading his Rafale 'analysis' and his anything vs Rafale articles. I'd also question what it is he does or has done for a career that qualifies him to be an authority on aerodynamics, ECM, radar and weapons.
He seems to speak about things such as Rafale's SPECTRA vs Typhoon's Praetorian with generic quotes. "Difference being that Rafale has more precise RWRs, while Typhoon has towed decoy". There's not many people, if any, in the world that would know the exact capabilities of both systems.

Google 'picard578 bias' and you'll see he's got serious issues with the F-35. If someone handed me a report and I knew they already had a bias against what they were reporting on I wouldn't trust their objectivity one bit.

TL;DR: A blogger. And a Trekkie

[xav]

^ I see,
So he's pretty much the kind of person to get banned from Keypublishing forums and what not ?

[-Eddie-]

Probably, it depends how aggressive he is with his points I suppose. From what I looked at when I Googled him he doesn't seem receptive to other people's thoughts. I've heard of him before but just put him to the back of my mind with the rest of the bloggers who wibble on about things they don't like.

Back on topic, it's a shame the F-35 couldn't make it to the UK again. Anyone know the reason for its non-showing? A wasp stuck in the cockpit perhaps, or a strong bout of hayfever?

[Geoff_B]

Probably, it depends how aggressive he is with his points I suppose. From what I looked at when I Googled him he doesn't seem receptive to other people's thoughts. I've heard of him before but just put him to the back of my mind with the rest of the bloggers who wibble on about things they don't like.

Back on topic, it's a shame the F-35 couldn't make it to the UK again. Anyone know the reason for its non-showing? A wasp stuck in the cockpit perhaps, or a strong bout of hayfever?

F-35B's are too busy with getting the USMC IOC passed along with mods, fixes and trials.

Plus its only an Air Show, Farnborough is a Trade expo, so we're more likely to see them next summer instead (Hopefully !)

[Geoff_B]

Google 'picard578 bias' and you'll see he's got serious issues with the F-35. If someone handed me a report and I knew they already had a bias against what they were reporting on I wouldn't trust their objectivity one bit.

Ah but do you apply the same criteria to pro-F-35 biased reports too ?