F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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SKB
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Am I right is believing that the lightning flash on the aircrafts tail plane still has nothing to do with the squadron insignia of 617 Squadron, historically also a lightning flash?

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SKB
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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The plane's name is Lightning. The other British F-35B squadrons also have the lightning tail flashes. The 617 Lightning flash might just be coincidental.

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Gabriele
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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It's the symbol of the "Lightning Force" as a whole and the only marking we are going to see on the F-35s bar special colors perhaps appearing in special occasions.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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I do not think that Colours will ever be used on F35's unless the paint is "Stealth" compatable.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Thinking about the mixed RAF/FAA/USMC force of F-35Bs embarking on the far east cruise next year, how much commonality will there be between the UK and US contingents. Yes having the USMC along will enable a reasonably sized air group, but take ordinance for example. How much of each inventory will be able to be use by the other? We use ASRAAM for example, they with use AIM-9X, we have Paveway IV they have SDB, the list goes on. Are each contingent even able to use the others? All have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit. Surely if the USMC are to be regularly embarked on our carriers we need to look at both nations being able to use each other inventory.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Funnily enough, F-35s embarked on ships will continue to use ALIS (which I presume we, too, have)
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim wrote:ll have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit.
You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance

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SKB
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Anyone know how many F-35's are flying to QE?

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Defiance wrote:You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance
That is exactly the point I am trying to make, are both nations pilot going to cross train with the others weapons. To not do so would be very inefficient and limit the effectiveness of the Air Group. I raised this point because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere regarding the work up for the 2021 cruise.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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SKB wrote:Anyone know how many F-35's are flying to QE?
Five I heard- but that number may not be the case if the planes fly from RAF Marham and then return, in other words they may be shore based.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Isn't that the number heading to the US for red flag?

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim wrote:
Defiance wrote:You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance
That is exactly the point I am trying to make, are both nations pilot going to cross train with the others weapons. To not do so would be very inefficient and limit the effectiveness of the Air Group. I raised this point because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere regarding the work up for the 2021 cruise.
I'd say it's unlikely, beyond some very limited stuff in the future. The UK F35s won't be cleared for non UK stores.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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dmereifield wrote:Isn't that the number heading to the US for red flag?
Yes I think you are right. UK Defence Journal are saying six pilots will be getting carrier qualifications. That could mean any number of airframes and based ashore at RAF Marham. So its any bodies guess.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Lord Jim wrote:How much of each inventory will be able to be use by the other? We use ASRAAM for example, they with use AIM-9X, we have Paveway IV they have SDB, the list goes on. Are each contingent even able to use the others? All have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit. Surely if the USMC are to be regularly embarked on our carriers we need to look at both nations being able to use each other inventory.
With the exception of Amraam C-5 for a few more years, and then Amraam D from 2022ish (and the gun pod if the UK ever buys any) the UK will not be using any other US or US common air weapons. And we're unlikely to do so going forward. Unless its to close a gap(like Amraam D), a very small buy/shared stockpile (P-8 munitions) or an urgent requirement the direction of travel is UK/European air weapons only.

Whilst UK F-35 will be able to 'carry' US weapons, the pilots and ground crews will not be trained in their use, vice versa for the USMC embarked on QE Class. That will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusively.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

[quote="Timmymagic"]will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusive[/quote... except when it is 'for show' only
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Caribbean »

Timmymagic wrote:That will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusively.
... potentially to demonstrate the flexibility of the automated weapons delivery system, in the light of future co-operation?
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I hope the "glass half full view" prevails :)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Caribbean wrote:.. potentially to demonstrate the flexibility of the automated weapons delivery system, in the light of future co-operation?
The HMWS won't matter that much. It moves pallets, and doesn't particularly care what is on them (as long as the weight and dimensions fit and is programmed into the system). As long as you tell the system where a particular pallet is located it will deliver it to the correct area. What will be more interesting is that it will be likely that some of the weapon prep areas will have to be allocated to the USMC when they are onboard as test and maintenance equipment and indeed tools will differ for the weaponry that they have to prepare. The RN will also have to ensure that their standards and processes onboard are followed (not saying the USMC's are unsafe, they're just different).

The question of ammunitioning is also interesting. The QE Class will ammunition at Glen Mallan. They'll only need to make a trip there in between dockyard periods when she is emptied of stores for safety reasons, so about every 1-2 years. But for a USMC deployment how will that work? Will the USMC store some munitions at Glen Mallan, they don't have more than a minor presence in the UK at the moment. Will a small stockpile of US munitions be held aboard QE Class all the time to cover unexpected eventualities (unlikely in my view), that would presumably mean a permanent deployment of US personnel onboard to maintain them. Or will they put US munitions aboard on some stopover on the way to a deployment/exercise? They're not going to head over to the US just for that.

The workings of this relationship will be fascinating to observe, I'm sure the RN has worked out all of these details, but it will be interesting to see if it leads to any inefficiencies or constraints along the way.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Would the US send a stores ship to RAS with QE/POW to supply weapons when their F35's are onboard ? along with a destroyer?

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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With regards to the U.S.M.C f35b on the U.K carrier why couldnt the U.S.M.S have access to the armenments carried for the R.N f35,s it might be interesting for them to be equipped with Meteor for example ,thats of course they are all the same block 4 ,you would expect that any R.N planes serving on a U.S.N ship would not have to bring their own

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

I think it is a safe bet that there are people in the MoD and Pentagon looking into this as we speak. We are deploying a joint air wing and that air wing has to be able to fight, no matter how unlikely it may be on next years cruise. Well that is what I think should be happening logically.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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seaspear wrote:With regards to the U.S.M.C f35b on the U.K carrier why couldnt the U.S.M.S have access to the armenments carried for the R.N f35,s it might be interesting for them to be equipped with Meteor for example ,thats of course they are all the same block 4 ,you would expect that any R.N planes serving on a U.S.N ship would not have to bring their own
Both sets of a/c would have to cleared for use in their respective RTs for both sets of weapons plus trained in their use. Then you've got maintenance, storage regulations etc, nothing is impossible of course but if you want flexibility you've got invest time and money in it.
It's not a simple process, it all takes time.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Apart from Meteor which may be deployed on the carrier which are the differences in weapons loadouts between the U.S.M.C and R.N aircraft as I understand only block 4 aircraft can field Meteor will the aircraft to be deployed be such ?

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