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L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
Little J
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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Little J » 12 Mar 2018, 14:58

Looks like Mat isn't impressed*... Although I don't think all his information is necessarily accurate (he's in Canada, so he can be forgiven ;) )




*And he did a video defending the SA80.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby RetroSicotte » 12 Mar 2018, 15:02

I've looked over his videos in the past. They are riddled with inaccuracies at effectively all levels.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Little J » 12 Mar 2018, 15:45

I've never bothered to check, but I get the impression that most of his "script's" are just straight from a wiki page. Even so, sometimes its worth it just for the library footage he mix's together.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 13 Mar 2018, 15:09

Image
The Inkerman Company are utilising new equipment that has been specifically developed to support the Section Commanders and soldiers through a testing battle range.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Lord Jim » 13 Mar 2018, 17:03

Is the "A3" a case of adding new bits to the weapon, or is it like the "A2" conversion where the weapon was stripped down and refined to remove the issues raised regarding its performance in service. If it is the latter we are going to be using the L85 for decades to come.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 13 Mar 2018, 21:40

Lord Jim wrote: If it is the latter we are going to be using the L85 for decades to come.


Regardless of which one applies, 2035 was given as the projected end of life (wait! A4, anyone?).

I think that FAMAS, on the side of the HK roll-out to front line troops, will bow out at the same time. As will the improved Valmet RK-62 (improved in the L85 way, not the newer models like 95).
- who will take the market; what round will be standard by then...

Well, these things don't move fast, but may be UKDF will be around and we will settle all the bets of virtual pints :)

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 10 Apr 2018, 12:24

The Irish Guards look to have received theirs:


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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Little J » 10 Apr 2018, 13:36

So if you march around a palace you get the upgrade first? :mrgreen:

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby SKB » 01 May 2018, 11:00


(British Army)
The SA80 A2 is being phased out for a new and improved SA80 A3. The Grenadier Guards, who have been the first infantry battalion to fire the new weapon system, have been putting some of the new features to the test.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Little J » 08 Nov 2018, 19:25

A notice was issued on 28 October stating that the MoD intended to award NSAF Limited, a UK subsidiary of Heckler & Koch, a contract worth up to GBP75 million (USD95.6 million) to modify and supply 44,000 upgraded 5.56×45 mm SA80 rifles.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... e-upgrade/

Surely those numbers can't be right? 1,700 quid each :crazy:

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Nov 2018, 21:07

Little J wrote:Surely those numbers can't be right? 1,700 quid each :crazy:


DE&S answer to a FOI request:
"the expected cost of the initial 5,000 weapons
is £4.4m (ex VAT). "
- that's for the first batch, the 44k of them must be the actual production run... are they heavily accessorised and/or is support/ lots of spares included?

HK to the rescue (=A2, but how many?) cost £111m (ex VAT).

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Lord Jim » 08 Nov 2018, 23:20

Looking at the current programme only the Infantry are going to get the A3 with second line units retaining the A2. Mind you the amount of changes HK brought into the A2 were considerable and the same goes for the A3. Mostly small parts but the numbers soon add up. Still it is far cheaper than introducing a new rifle and all that entails.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 09 Nov 2018, 05:18

Lord Jim wrote:only the Infantry are going to get the A3 with second line units retaining the A2

Exactly what France is doing with HK and Scar; and what Finland is doing with their venerable AR from year dot (sorry, 1962), some of the newer ones now looking like this https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rk ... ORM=IQFRBA

Lord Jim wrote:Mostly small parts but the numbers soon add up
optics are expensive, but not everyone needs to be issued with those "parts"... not even within the frontline infantry.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Lord Jim » 09 Nov 2018, 07:44

Hopefully with HK basically running the show they will try to maintain at least some level of interchangeability between the A2 and A3. It may not be as light or handy as the M4 but it has far more impact on those at the receiving end at least. So this is going to be the way forward, next will be a new rifle to replace the L85A3 which will be passed down to other units and so on. As you say it is becoming more and more common and is pretty cost effective way f doing things. More importantly it gives us time to see how small arms evolve, especially with all the work and trial going on looking at new types and sizes of ammo.

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Gabriele » 09 Nov 2018, 09:00

There are two 1-year options on top of the 3-years deal for 44.000, so one can hope that in time all the L85s are upgraded. The full lenght rail on top is fundamental for what the army aims to do with fused sights and in-line sights.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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Re: L85A1/A2/A3 - SA80 Assault Rifle

Postby Lord Jim » 10 Nov 2018, 00:29

Even with the options I cannot see the RAF (except the Regiment) and Royal Navy (Except the Royal Marines) getting the A3 when the A2 is good enough for their needs. We have to look after every half shilling these days and this would produce a small saving with little risk, whether by design or accident.


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