UK Defence Forum

downsizer wrote:And its payload is....?

Currently, 5kg for a testrig of surveillance kit, not super high end but it's all about demonstrational.

The actual one they're aiming to use will have a much higher payload, thats the focus.

I know it's 5kg, I was being obtuse.

This programme is a fucking long way from being useful. Just wanted to point that out to certain members who have damp patches already.

Well in leu of further information and it being an enthusiast forum as much as anything, that's only gonna happen.

The idea of missiles on a 70,000ft flying surveillance platform expected to loiter for 3 months at a time is perhaps a little silly, though, yes.

I know. Sometimes it never hurts to return to reality though....

I mean we have to get missiles onto the Black Hornet first, geez. Priorities, y'know?

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Isn't it said that a coin dropped from the Eiffel Tower could kill a person?

Well what about a tungsten dart dropped from 70,000 feet?

With that payload you could fit a single free fall LLM, would have quite a range gliding from 70,000 feet

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Last time UK and France had to make a joint announcement on an unmanned air vehicle at an airshow, the programme died. Rest in peace, Telemos.

Hoping for a better outcome this time around...

The MOD won't stump up to add missiles to any fighters, helicopters or ships so I don't think there is much risk of adding them to any of the insanely overpriced drones we are currently failing to operate.

An article on Zephyr. Not had the chance to read it all myself, but it might be of interest to some:
http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-te ... e-or-burn/

Once these 5 circuits are operational, globally there will remain "holes" around Australia and (cough, cough) the UK:

"The US Navy has completed the first of two operational tests on Northrop Grumman's MQ-4C. While data on the tests is still being analyzed, a favorable review could see a low rate procurement contract awarded in the second quarter of this year, a year ahead of the next operational test event. Initial plans for the UAV involve providing broad area surveillance over 5 orbits encircling the globe, then cueing the manned P-8A Poseidon to inspect closer or deploy weapons."
- picked up from today's DID

what is quite probably a prototype for our future protector drone has taken to the sky.



40 hour endurance, nice

http://defense-update.com/20160225_pred ... ngs-3.html

Unmanned Air Vehicles:Written question - 25681

Asked by Douglas Chapman(Dunfermline and West Fife)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many Zephyr 8 UAVs his Department plans to buy; what the estimated cost per unit is of that equipment; what the programme through life cost is of that equipment; and where he plans units of that equipment will be based.

Answered by: Mr Philip Dunne

As part of our commitment to providing next-generation battlefield intelligence capabilities to the UK Armed Forces, the Ministry of Defence is planning to contract for the demonstration of two Zephyr Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. This contract will allow the UK to understand whether Zephyr can fulfil the requirement for a high-altitude persistent surveillance capability, as announced in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The £10.6 million contract, due to be signed imminently with Airbus Defence and Space, is for an operational concept demonstration rather than individual platforms, so unit costs are not held. Furthermore, as the Zephyr demonstrators will not be in-service, they will not be based at a particular location and there will be no related support or through-life costs.
Tests are due to take place in 2017 to assess Zephyr's capabilities and explore its potential.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -03/25681/

Unmanned Air Vehicles:Written question - 29385

Asked by Mrs Madeleine Moon(Bridgend)

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether the contract for the new Predator ER is predicated on aviation authorities giving clearance for that aircraft to fly in UK and European air space; and if he will make a statement.

Answered by: Mr Philip Dunne

The Department is currently working towards a main investment decision on the PROTECTOR remotely-piloted aircraft announced in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review, rather than contracting for a new Predator Extended Range (ER) programme. As part of this work, the Department is considering the issues and options relating to clearance to fly in UK and European airspace.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... -02/29385/

Not sure where to put this link so decided to put it here (sorry if there's a more appropriate place)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... walls.html

What a capability that would be for targeting underground bunkers or submarines!
They seem to be saying is not 25 years but 5-10 years for deployability.
Shows the value in MOD funded blue sky academic research.


Watch documentary on BBC2 Horizon 8pm tonite!

Thanks for the heads up, W.P.

bloody hell that was a bit underwhelming....thought was goin to be .... well

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Not sure if anyone else had seen this. Sub-scale twin tailed Zephyr has flown. Full size version (2019) will carry 20kg payload rather than Zephyrs current 5kg load. That opens up a lot of possibilities.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ht-424873/

And in the same publication some details on development work on Zephyr payloads. The foliage penetrating radar sounds rather interesting, particularly as it's towed..as does the Lidar system which looks to have lots of uses in such a payload constrained craft.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-424466/

Certainly some interesting an ambitions developments in the pipe line. The two the MOD have purchased are for evaluation, the bigger version will be the true product that is then capable of carrying a radar and other more interesting sensors that aren't restricted by the 5Kg limit.

The UK will be getting a variant called Zephyr S, which stands for satellite communications, it is a Zephyr 8 that can operate beyond visual range. "This deceptively simple concept requires that the aircraft be fully autonomous in its navigation, flight control and power management – operating in a similar way to Airbus’ satellites but with the added complexity of the atmosphere."

Also it looks like ours are under constriction in Farnborough;


And some sample imagery;




The UK has ordered 2 Zephyr S, with an option for 1 more. Airbus plans to deliver our evaluation aircraft, and then continue with the development of the larger Zephyr T, which will presumably be our operational systems assuming the 'S' passes evaluation.

As for the MOD; "Three months of Zephyr S testing from an undisclosed location is being planned by the MoD to take place in 2017, which will allow it to assess the benefits of operating the HAPS for battlefield surveillance." Australia?

Woomera it is then.

The T variant if that is eventually chosen sounds very capable.

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