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U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 07:42
by The Armchair Soldier
A topic to discuss UK UAV's/drones.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 08:53
by shark bait
Good, both should be increased as they can both provide a substantial threat against terrorist groups, where more conventional means fail to preform efficiently.

Drones really do need increasing and fast in my opinion. Something is needed to replace the tornado in the close air support role and it needs to be something cheap, so either a cheap manned platform or a drone.

I guess that would mean more reaper purchase's, which would be welcome but the next generation is coming close so I would also like to see taranis development sped up, I would be a crime is that's fades away to vapourware.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 10:48
by hovematlot
The article goes on about the concept of launching drones and Special forces from the QEC. Now that we have gone back to the ski jump that must limit the options for UAV operations from them?

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 11:47
by downsizer
Scan Eagle is a Drone (a shit one), but it can be launched from a QE carrier. The government said nothing of launching high end drones from the carriers. Once again politicians making meaningless noise...

And it's all well and good throwing money at the SAS but where are the extra bods coming from? The course is difficult to pass for a reason, you can't just boost the numbers.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 17:27
by shark bait
hovematlot wrote:The article goes on about the concept of launching drones and Special forces from the QEC. Now that we have gone back to the ski jump that must limit the options for UAV operations from them?
Doest limit operations, just need a product designed for the job. We should develop a tilt rotor drone then we can be very effective from a carrier

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 22:02
by bobp
Could it be that when Cameroon and Co are talking Intelligence Aircraft he is talking about MPA after all that too is a intelligence aircraft. I suspect if there is to be a big equipment announcement it will be for a MPA aircraft. Money to be found from additional 1.5 billion intelligence/defence fund. What is the cost of eight P8 Aircraft? And perhaps a couple more Predators.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 22:50
by RetroSicotte
Fully expect this to be the next 2 Airseeker/Rivet Joints and the remaining Watchkeepers being "announced" as part of the "larger" budget.

What? What do you mean they were already planned anyway? Haven't you heard about the new air defence destroyers we've been investing into that are entering service to show how much we're doing?

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 14 Jul 2015, 00:32
by ArmChairCivvy
Re-announcing is a well-practiced ... err, practice.

Trying to put the emphasis on expeditionary ops (as the main tasking of the armed forces, going forward) in a couple of sentences can easily end up in everything being launched off the QE's.
- now, in reality, we would need to buy a dozen or two of Sea Avengers (not a bad idea) and then what was said could somehow hold

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 14 Jul 2015, 09:16
by bobp
More likely to see a dozen ice cream vans for use in the next cold war. Yes indeed the Cameroon & Co do have a habit of using sound bites because they sound good or re announcing old news as if it was something new. I am always sceptical of any news, I seem to remember about the time of the last SDSR the government announcing a billion for special forces, I am yet to see any evidence of it being spent. So will not hold my breath for any new developments regarding UAV's.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 05:00
by SKB
bobp wrote:More likely to see a dozen ice cream vans for use in the next cold war...

:mrgreen:

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 15:43
by jonas
bobp wrote:More likely to see a dozen ice cream vans for use in the next cold war. Yes indeed the Cameroon & Co do have a habit of using sound bites because they sound good or re announcing old news as if it was something new. I am always sceptical of any news, I seem to remember about the time of the last SDSR the government announcing a billion for special forces, I am yet to see any evidence of it being spent. So will not hold my breath for any new developments regarding UAV's.
You obviously have a 'thing' about Cameron and Co, so perhaps a little something from 1SL might give you a little more food for thought :-

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ation.html

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 19:19
by shark bait
RN are pushing ahead well with Air and Sub Surface systems.

Dont remember if this has been posted here before but it looks like a promising system. Origionally they planed to fly it off a T23 but apparently there wasn't one available do made do with a low loader.

Image


Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 20:34
by seaspear
Why wouldnt you develop a drone type craft that could be launched off a carrier with ski jump ,a ski jump launch may have the potential for the drone to carry more or heavier payload ,there are other navies using these types of carriers so there would be a possible export market

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 21:03
by shark bait
seaspear wrote:Why wouldnt you develop a drone type craft that could be launched off a carrier with ski jump ,a ski jump launch may have the potential for the drone to carry more or heavier payload ,there are other navies using these types of carriers so there would be a possible export market
I think its going to be very difficult. For example how do you launch and recover they system without impeding on F35 operations?

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 22:12
by seaspear
There would be difficulties but if there are advantages identified then you could look to address difficulties , and this could also come back to what the drone is required to do , and what other capabilities may be useful , does the altitude of a scan eagle type limit its capabilities for being detected or would a higher altiutde winged drone have more capability there

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 22:24
by shark bait
seaspear wrote:There would be difficulties but if there are advantages identified then you could look to address difficulties , and this could also come back to what the drone is required to do , and what other capabilities may be useful , does the altitude of a scan eagle type limit its capabilities for being detected or would a higher altiutde winged drone have more capability there
True. It would be great if son of Taranis could work off the carriers, but I cant see it.

I think a watchkeeper is the biggest fixed wind they could realistically operate. It already has a catapult launcher and arrestor gear. The catapult is portable, so it would just require a way to fix the arrestor cable onto the deck with minimal modifications. The thing folds up so it ideal for carrier storage.

I think that is seriously worth looking into, but anything bigger I think it would have to be a helo or tilt rotor.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 23:29
by Dahedd
http://www.wired.com/2013/03/agustawest ... ilt-rotor/

There must be some potential in AW's Project Zero tilt rotor type vehicle ?

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 23:38
by shark bait
Dahedd wrote:http://www.wired.com/2013/03/agustawest ... ilt-rotor/

There must be some potential in AW's Project Zero tilt rotor type vehicle ?
That is the very concept I had pictured in my head as I was typing my last comment.
Looks like a nice idea, with a long way to go. Would be nice if AW demonstrated it flying.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 01 Oct 2015, 01:56
by seaspear
Folding wings would be a start

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 03 Oct 2015, 22:39
by Gabriele
David Cameron says, ahead of SDSR, that the current 10 Reapers will be replaced by 20 "Protectors".

No idea what they will actually be: beefed up Reaper? Mantis developed and put into service? Joining the european MALE 2020 project?
Hundreds of millions of pounds will also be spent buying a new generation of drones to replace the RAF Reapers currently flying missions in Syria and Iraq.

The new Protector drones will be able to fly longer distances, are quieter and can carry more sophisticated weapons and equipment.

Mr Cameron said: “We have at the moment a drone fleet of 10 Reapers and what we are going to be doing is actually replacing that with twice as many with a new updated piece of equipment - called Protector - which will be more than doubling of our fleet to keep us safe and to give us the intelligence and information and potentially give us the capacity to hit people who are potentially planning to hit us.”
MALE 2020, last i heard, will have no weapons, so it's a no...?

I'm tempted to say "beefed up Reapers", but really, it is a wild guess.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -Isil.html

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 03 Oct 2015, 23:04
by shark bait
Gabriele wrote: I'm tempted to say "beefed up Reapers", but really, it is a wild guess.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -Isil.html
Good news, exactly the right direction to be heading in.

As your rightly say, "Protector" drones is a bit mysterious, article says both new and upgraded which is maddeningly confusing. There are many enhancements to the reaper that we could, and should, adopt so it could well be "beefed up Reapers".

article states
The new Protector drones will be able to fly longer distances, are quieter and can carry more sophisticated weapons and equipment.

those could be achieved by the longer wings and external fuel tanks but I'm not aware of any way it could be quieter. Is there an engine upgrade for the reaper? perhaps miss reporting or an entirely new system.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 04 Oct 2015, 08:46
by cockneyjock1974
Tried Google fu but can't get any images of protector! Anybody else have any joy?

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 04 Oct 2015, 09:23
by Cooper
My hunch is we'll be buying a bunch of new Reapers and just renaming the new fleet to 'Protectors'...sounds less menacing and more politically correct for the lefties.

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 04 Oct 2015, 10:12
by SKB
cockneyjock1974 wrote:Tried Google fu but can't get any images of protector! Anybody else have any joy?
Did the same. All i found was some 'Unmanned Surface Water Vehicles!' - Boats! ;)

Re: U.K. UAV's/Drones

Posted: 04 Oct 2015, 10:17
by The Armchair Soldier
This Sky News article claims the drones will be bought from the US, so that might narrow it down just a bit. :P

Definitely welcome news, though. It's not often we hear news about our assets increasing, nevermind doubling.