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Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 04 Nov 2016, 11:45
by marktigger
how much commonality is there in structures between T1 & T2? could airframes be zero houred?
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 11:32
by The Armchair Soldier
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 19:38
by Ron5
Thanks for sharing. Great photos.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 10:08
by shark bait
The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.
I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?
It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 11:02
by dmereifield
shark bait wrote:The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.
I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?
It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
It's not clear to me how UK plc benefits, greatly (if at all), from this. It's produced in India and aren't they producing as many components as possible under licence over there under the whole Made in India thing?
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 12:03
by abc123
shark bait wrote:The new Hawk is being touted as ASRAAM, Brimstone and Paveway capable when fitted with a Litening targeting pod. Throw in the addition of a data link, DAS, and mid-air refuelling capability and its quite a nice package.
I've never been much of a fan of a lighter strike aircraft, and always maintained it only makes sense if the platform is also the trainer platform. Now we have a combat capable trainer aircraft, but im still not sure ther is value adopting a combat version. Is there any value pairing Combat Hawks with typhoon over the skies of Iraq for example?
It may look attractive to the smaller militaries, who are insisting on a jet aircraft, heres hoping it can keep production lines going for many more years.
And the cost?
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 14:39
by shark bait
The UK will still benifit, BAE can build and sell the Hawk directly from the UK, or via HAL in india. Depends if customers are willing to pay the premium for a higher quality product.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 15:59
by dmereifield
shark bait wrote:The UK will still benifit, BAE can build and sell the Hawk directly from the UK, or via HAL in india. Depends if customers are willing to pay the premium for a higher quality product.
Why would anyone pay more for the same thing? I assume there must be some components, however few, that are made in the UK so I guess there mist be some minor benefit....
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 21:32
by shark bait
Buying from a well established aerospace industry, or one playing catch up, the 2 are not equals.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 21:45
by dmereifield
No, but if imagine that any country looking to purchase the Hawk as strike aircraft probably doesn't have a large budget, and as such, isn't going to want to pay more than they have to
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 22:26
by ArmChairCivvy
dmereifield wrote:any country looking to purchase the Hawk as strike aircraft probably doesn't have a large budget
Here is one such mix; the Hawks have even an anti-shipping role
Sukhoi Su-30MKM Russia Jet Multirole fighter 18[1]
- Specialised development of the Sukhoi Su-30 for the Royal Malaysian Air Force.[2]
Boeing F/A-18D Hornet USA Jet Multirole fighter 8[3] All-weather.
Mikoyan MiG-29 Russia Jet Air superiority fighter 12 10 x MiG-29N, 2 x MiG-29NUB[4] Scheduled for retirement in 2015.
BAE Hawk UK Jet Light multirole fighter 6 x Mk 108 single seat light multirole fighter, 13 x Mk 208 advanced weapons trainer[5]
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 05:48
by dmereifield
^^^Thanks for the info
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 19:54
by marktigger
there is a good market round the world for hawk type aircraft especially if it can use modern weapons.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 21:03
by dmereifield
I'm not trying to be difficult or awkward, but again, who is going to pay (except for us) to have them built here in the UK at a premium when they can have them produced in India considerably cheaper. And with the Made in India policy in full effect, the benefits in terms of UK jobs and UK plc will surely be quite marginal. Hopefully this assumption is wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 21:18
by RunningStrong
dmereifield wrote:I'm not trying to be difficult or awkward, but again, who is going to pay (except for us) to have them built here in the UK at a premium when they can have them produced in India considerably cheaper. And with the Made in India policy in full effect, the benefits in terms of UK jobs and UK plc will surely be quite marginal. Hopefully this assumption is wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to the contrary
Final assembly in India I suppose, but I'd be surprised if all LRU production was replicated there too.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 21:42
by bobp
Don't forget we have production facilities here in the UK for the Hawk. Not all Hawk are built in India. Saudi Arabia has taken deliveries quite recently and I believe they are still producing that order.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 21:55
by dmereifield
Yes its great they they still have a production line going and hopefully they will be able to generate more international sales - presumably the RAF will need more in the not to distant future too.
My comments were specifically in reference to the UK-Indo advanced Hawk.
Forgive me, I don't know what LRU stands for
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 00:24
by ArmChairCivvy
dmereifield wrote:with the Made in India policy in full effect
- our PM assures us (?) that the new trade deal will be wonderful; surely (!) the above policy will have a UK exemption and we will get a "level playing field"
dmereifield wrote: I don't know what LRU stands for
- on that one, we two are in the same boat
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 07:51
by bobp
LRU= Line Replaceable unit sometimes known as Black Boxes. These are the units that contain radios, computers, flight controls etc.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 08:01
by dmereifield
Thanks for the clarification
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 09:38
by ArmChairCivvy
[quote ]I'd be surprised if all LRU production was replicated there too.[/quote]
OK, yes agree. And more? The cockpit displays etc.
Often engine production is something that India insists on, to get onto the learning curve. But in the case of Hawk, they are well pass that point as the Sukhoi offer to Brazil was backed by their engines coming from (and going back for refurb, to) India.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 09:58
by shark bait
Yes, there are Indian options for all those bits too.
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 20 Feb 2017, 10:40
by ArmChairCivvy
Duplicating the "glass cockpit" for something that still is, basically, a trainer?
How wasteful. On that topic (off the headlined topic) there is now a complete committee to look at the waste of resources going/gone into the Indian version of PAK-FA. If successful that kind of expenditure would add punch to their defence (but setting up a committee sounds more like canning it, and preforming the "defence" for why so much money has been wasted, and how it can come in handy by somehow using the results in other projects).
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 15 Jan 2018, 17:42
by dmereifield
Williamson is pushing to sell Hawks to Kuwait, he claims. About the only positive thing I heard today coming out of the House of Commons this afternoon...
What are the chances? I believe they already use older Hawks....
Re: BAE Hawk
Posted: 16 Jan 2018, 07:38
by Defiance
dmereifield wrote:Williamson is pushing to sell Hawks to Kuwait, he claims. About the only positive thing I heard today coming out of the House of Commons this afternoon...
What are the chances? I believe they already use older Hawks....
IMO it's 50/50. The fact that it's being discussed is positive (and I believe there's a favourable history of Hawk usage in country) but I'd be curious to know what the Italians have/will be offering.