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F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.

How do you feel about the F-35B for the RN and RAF? (2 votes per member)

GOOD choice for the Royal Navy
123
44%
BAD choice for the Royal Navy
11
4%
Uncertain (RN)
14
5%
GOOD choice for the Royal Air Force
54
19%
BAD choice for the Royal Air Force
38
14%
Uncertain (RAF)
40
14%
 
Total votes: 280

Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 06 Mar 2020, 19:38

It's being speculated that Combat Air is going to take the biggest hit as part of the 'Integrated' Review...

Looks like the MoD is going to finally admit that the 138 figure is unachievable, looks like we may be about to bail on F-35...not sure if it also means the Tranche 1 Typhoon reprieve is reversed as well....

bobp
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 06 Mar 2020, 19:52

Timmymagic wrote:'s being speculated that Combat Air is going to take the biggest hit as part of the 'Integrated' Review...


Kind of expected cuts to happen especially to the numbers of F35B. The T1 Typhoons still have some use so it would be sad to lose them as well.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Mar 2020, 03:50

Timmymagic wrote:not sure if it also means the Tranche 1 Typhoon reprieve is reversed as well....

They built the bridge to slower deliveries, after the carrier air ISD (CEPP has a later year pencilled in for it) will have been achieved.
This bridge then also evens out the OCU activities (the number of plane tied to the hump in that activity) and further helps to alliviate the in-year cash hit from our F-35s rolling off the line... NAO did not specify which planes were in focus when the MoD paid the supplier £6 mln extra for the luxury of rolling the bill over the FY end, but your guess is as good as mine ;)

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Ron5 » 07 Mar 2020, 14:54

Timmymagic wrote:It's being speculated that Combat Air is going to take the biggest hit as part of the 'Integrated' Review...

Looks like the MoD is going to finally admit that the 138 figure is unachievable, looks like we may be about to bail on F-35...not sure if it also means the Tranche 1 Typhoon reprieve is reversed as well....


Where? By the lads down at the Old Dirty Duck at closing time doesn't count.

From where I sit, there is absolutely zero upside in messing with the governments commitment to 138 F-35's over the life of the program. It won't save money, just piss off a shed load of people. So it won't happen. Politicians aren't stupid about political stuff.

As for Typhoon Tranche 1's. Does anyone outside of the RAF care if they operate a few obsolete aircraft or not?

serge750
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby serge750 » 07 Mar 2020, 15:16

Concerning F35, comiting to another 90 over the life of the program of 40 years or more is only 2-3 a year so as you say it would do more political damage then its worth to cancel any potential chance of orders after the initial 48, maybe they might slow down any purchases to 1 a year :lol: until project tempest yields results.... or they will do what all politicians do just kick the can down the road.....

Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 07 Mar 2020, 17:56

Ron5 wrote:Where? By the lads down at the Old Dirty Duck at closing time doesn't count.


https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defe ... eview-fal/

Behind a paywall..

bobp
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 07 Mar 2020, 18:13

Perhaps they want to replace some of the F35B with A models. Just a thought.

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Ron5 » 07 Mar 2020, 19:37

Timmymagic wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Where? By the lads down at the Old Dirty Duck at closing time doesn't count.


https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defe ... eview-fal/

Behind a paywall..


Same difference, journo chatter.

topman
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby topman » 08 Mar 2020, 08:18

Talk is cheap, yes of course we will make a strong financial commitment to further purchases in FY 2047/48.

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Ron5 » 08 Mar 2020, 14:56

topman wrote:Talk is cheap, yes of course we will make a strong financial commitment to further purchases in FY 2047/48.


Like you have any say in it :D

topman
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby topman » 08 Mar 2020, 18:08

Ron5 wrote:
topman wrote:Talk is cheap, yes of course we will make a strong financial commitment to further purchases in FY 2047/48.


Like you have any say in it :D


Never said I did. But statements of planned spending in several decades time are pretty much meaningless in the UK system of government.

This review will kick the can down the road or at least try to. Lots of soothing noises, nothing massively chopped nor massively backed to the hilt.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Mar 2020, 18:54

Service life of 30 yrs, planned OSD (by USAF) close to 2060
=> by 2030 we will be placing our last orders

O-ohh... 2020 EP would need to record any such. Though the funding is categories, so x number of F-35s unlikely to be specified

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Ron5 » 09 Mar 2020, 15:01

topman wrote:we will make a strong financial commitment

Ron5 wrote:Like you have any say in it :D

topman wrote:Never said I did


English language on line one.

topman
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby topman » 09 Mar 2020, 17:03

Ron5 wrote:
topman wrote:we will make a strong financial commitment

Ron5 wrote:Like you have any say in it :D

topman wrote:Never said I did


English language on line one.


We being the UK. Perhaps I should have put it in speech marks, I thought it obvious enough but clearly not. Your mistake, my fault.

I shall ensure I am crystal clear in future.

jonas
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby jonas » 17 Mar 2020, 10:48

Parliamentary written answers 16th March 2020 :-

Asked by Mr Mark Francois
(Rayleigh and Wickford)
[N]
Asked on: 11 March 2020
Ministry of Defence
Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft
27962
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what the cost to the public purse is of (a) the F-35 programme and (b) each F-35 aircraft.
A
Answered by: Jeremy Quin
Answered on: 16 March 2020

The price of an F-35B from Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) Lot 11 which comprises the last finalised contract is $115 million. This covers airframe and engine cost and represents a 24% price reduction from our first aircraft ordered. We expect this downward trend to continue in future lots.

Costs of the overall Lightning Programme are set out in the Ministry of Defence Government Major Projects Portfolio data, 2019, which is available in the Library of the House.

seaspear
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby seaspear » 17 Mar 2020, 19:30

Jonas is that U.S dollars or pounds being quoted for individual unit cost ?

jonas
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby jonas » 18 Mar 2020, 08:36

seaspear wrote:Jonas is that U.S dollars or pounds being quoted for individual unit cost ?


Yes it is US dollars per unit :-

https://www.f35.com/about/cost

Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 18 Mar 2020, 19:50

jonas wrote:Yes it is US dollars per unit :-

https://www.f35.com/about/cost


It's worth noting that that is for Lot 11 (and so is the PQ). Lot 12, 13 and 14 pricing has already been released:

F-35B
Lot 12 - $108m
Lot 13 - $104m
Lot 14 - $101m

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 18 Mar 2020, 20:05

Timmymagic wrote:Lot 14 - $101m


He-heh, the old trick of not including the engine in the price will not be needed anymore... to get under the 100 mln per piece magical price

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SW1 » 24 Mar 2020, 07:36

Major changes to the us marine corp


bobp
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 24 Mar 2020, 09:18

SW1 wrote:Major changes to the us marine corp

This could push up the price of the F35B quite a bit.

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Gabriele
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Gabriele » 24 Mar 2020, 09:33

Mark has gotten it wrong. Only 9 out of 18 USMC squadrons are 16 jets units; the other squadrons already are 10-strong.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Tempest414
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 24 Mar 2020, 10:34

This was my understanding that the F-35B units were 16 jets and the F-18 & F-35C units were 10 jets For me this works well as the B's can deploy on the LHD's as normal with 6 or 8 jets or they deploy as a whole sqn of 16 and the LHD/LHA becomes a light carrier. also the USMC F-35C units support the main carrier wings with the wings deploying 2 sqn's of 12 jets and 2 sqn's of 10 jets at this time

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Gabriele
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Gabriele » 24 Mar 2020, 10:56

Not all of the B squadrons are 16 strong. 5 of them were already of the 10-aircraft type. On the other hand, all 9 of the 16 jet squadrons are planned to be B units.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

seaspear
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby seaspear » 04 Apr 2020, 07:49

n interesting article on the future upgrades to the f35 ngine providing greater range and thrust for the aircraft ,the new engines are expected in the mid twenties , this could mean a lot of aircraft having expensive upgrades for those countries that have most of the aircraft already by then
https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis/a ... ?adredir=1


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