UK Defence Forum

News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.

How do you feel about the F-35B for the RN and RAF? (2 votes per member)

GOOD choice for the Royal Navy
122
44%
BAD choice for the Royal Navy
11
4%
Uncertain (RN)
14
5%
GOOD choice for the Royal Air Force
53
19%
BAD choice for the Royal Air Force
38
14%
Uncertain (RAF)
40
14%
 
Total votes: 278

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 1737
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 22 Jan 2020, 19:12

F35 from 617 Squadron are deploying to US for an exercise Red Flag. not much information given.

https://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/f-35-li ... e-9097193/

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/f- ... ag-in-usa/

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SW1 » 22 Jan 2020, 20:49

Deploying air power half way round the world without a boat it’s simply not on I tell you, whatever will they think of next...

downsizer
Member
Posts: 789
Joined: 02 May 2015, 08:03

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby downsizer » 22 Jan 2020, 21:23

Training @RF is second to none.

Do we really have to descend into dick measuring as per usual over this?

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 6042
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SKB » 22 Jan 2020, 21:33


Image
Image
Image

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3857
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 22 Jan 2020, 22:17

Am I right is believing that the lightning flash on the aircrafts tail plane still has nothing to do with the squadron insignia of 617 Squadron, historically also a lightning flash?

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 6042
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SKB » 22 Jan 2020, 22:39

The plane's name is Lightning. The other British F-35B squadrons also have the lightning tail flashes. The 617 Lightning flash might just be coincidental.

User avatar
Gabriele
Senior Member
Posts: 1983
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:53
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Gabriele » 23 Jan 2020, 10:02

It's the symbol of the "Lightning Force" as a whole and the only marking we are going to see on the F-35s bar special colors perhaps appearing in special occasions.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Scimitar54
Member
Posts: 543
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 23 Jan 2020, 18:27

I do not think that Colours will ever be used on F35's unless the paint is "Stealth" compatable.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3857
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 23 Jan 2020, 23:00

Thinking about the mixed RAF/FAA/USMC force of F-35Bs embarking on the far east cruise next year, how much commonality will there be between the UK and US contingents. Yes having the USMC along will enable a reasonably sized air group, but take ordinance for example. How much of each inventory will be able to be use by the other? We use ASRAAM for example, they with use AIM-9X, we have Paveway IV they have SDB, the list goes on. Are each contingent even able to use the others? All have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit. Surely if the USMC are to be regularly embarked on our carriers we need to look at both nations being able to use each other inventory.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 11491
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Jan 2020, 08:55

Funnily enough, F-35s embarked on ships will continue to use ALIS (which I presume we, too, have)

Defiance
Member
Posts: 481
Joined: 07 Oct 2015, 20:52

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Defiance » 24 Jan 2020, 08:57

Lord Jim wrote:ll have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit.


You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 6042
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SKB » 24 Jan 2020, 09:08

Anyone know how many F-35's are flying to QE?

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 3857
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 24 Jan 2020, 12:23

Defiance wrote:You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance

That is exactly the point I am trying to make, are both nations pilot going to cross train with the others weapons. To not do so would be very inefficient and limit the effectiveness of the Air Group. I raised this point because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere regarding the work up for the 2021 cruise.

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 1737
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 24 Jan 2020, 14:51

SKB wrote:Anyone know how many F-35's are flying to QE?


Five I heard- but that number may not be the case if the planes fly from RAF Marham and then return, in other words they may be shore based.

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2014
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby dmereifield » 24 Jan 2020, 16:03

Isn't that the number heading to the US for red flag?

topman
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: 07 May 2015, 20:56
Location: Tokelau

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby topman » 24 Jan 2020, 17:11

Lord Jim wrote:
Defiance wrote:You probably want the pilots to qualify to be able to use unfamiliar ordnance

That is exactly the point I am trying to make, are both nations pilot going to cross train with the others weapons. To not do so would be very inefficient and limit the effectiveness of the Air Group. I raised this point because I cannot find any mention of it anywhere regarding the work up for the 2021 cruise.


I'd say it's unlikely, beyond some very limited stuff in the future. The UK F35s won't be cleared for non UK stores.

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 1737
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby bobp » 24 Jan 2020, 17:40

dmereifield wrote:Isn't that the number heading to the US for red flag?


Yes I think you are right. UK Defence Journal are saying six pilots will be getting carrier qualifications. That could mean any number of airframes and based ashore at RAF Marham. So its any bodies guess.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 6042
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby SKB » 24 Jan 2020, 19:28



Timmymagic
Senior Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 24 Jan 2020, 22:47

Lord Jim wrote:How much of each inventory will be able to be use by the other? We use ASRAAM for example, they with use AIM-9X, we have Paveway IV they have SDB, the list goes on. Are each contingent even able to use the others? All have obviously been cleared for the F-35B, so does it only need a software patch to allow each to use the others kit. Surely if the USMC are to be regularly embarked on our carriers we need to look at both nations being able to use each other inventory.


With the exception of Amraam C-5 for a few more years, and then Amraam D from 2022ish (and the gun pod if the UK ever buys any) the UK will not be using any other US or US common air weapons. And we're unlikely to do so going forward. Unless its to close a gap(like Amraam D), a very small buy/shared stockpile (P-8 munitions) or an urgent requirement the direction of travel is UK/European air weapons only.

Whilst UK F-35 will be able to 'carry' US weapons, the pilots and ground crews will not be trained in their use, vice versa for the USMC embarked on QE Class. That will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusively.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 11491
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 24 Jan 2020, 23:52

[quote="Timmymagic"]will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusive[/quote... except when it is 'for show' only

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 1703
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
Location: England

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Caribbean » 25 Jan 2020, 00:58

Timmymagic wrote:That will be interesting when US aircraft embark as a portion of the ships magazine and weapons preperation areas will need to be devoted to US munitions exclusively.

... potentially to demonstrate the flexibility of the automated weapons delivery system, in the light of future co-operation?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 11491
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jan 2020, 01:01

I hope the "glass half full view" prevails :)

Timmymagic
Senior Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Location: United Kingdom

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 25 Jan 2020, 13:24

Caribbean wrote:.. potentially to demonstrate the flexibility of the automated weapons delivery system, in the light of future co-operation?


The HMWS won't matter that much. It moves pallets, and doesn't particularly care what is on them (as long as the weight and dimensions fit and is programmed into the system). As long as you tell the system where a particular pallet is located it will deliver it to the correct area. What will be more interesting is that it will be likely that some of the weapon prep areas will have to be allocated to the USMC when they are onboard as test and maintenance equipment and indeed tools will differ for the weaponry that they have to prepare. The RN will also have to ensure that their standards and processes onboard are followed (not saying the USMC's are unsafe, they're just different).

The question of ammunitioning is also interesting. The QE Class will ammunition at Glen Mallan. They'll only need to make a trip there in between dockyard periods when she is emptied of stores for safety reasons, so about every 1-2 years. But for a USMC deployment how will that work? Will the USMC store some munitions at Glen Mallan, they don't have more than a minor presence in the UK at the moment. Will a small stockpile of US munitions be held aboard QE Class all the time to cover unexpected eventualities (unlikely in my view), that would presumably mean a permanent deployment of US personnel onboard to maintain them. Or will they put US munitions aboard on some stopover on the way to a deployment/exercise? They're not going to head over to the US just for that.

The workings of this relationship will be fascinating to observe, I'm sure the RN has worked out all of these details, but it will be interesting to see if it leads to any inefficiencies or constraints along the way.

serge750
Member
Posts: 458
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:34

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby serge750 » 25 Jan 2020, 18:37

Would the US send a stores ship to RAS with QE/POW to supply weapons when their F35's are onboard ? along with a destroyer?

seaspear
Senior Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:16
Location: Australia

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Postby seaspear » 26 Jan 2020, 02:54

With regards to the U.S.M.C f35b on the U.K carrier why couldnt the U.S.M.S have access to the armenments carried for the R.N f35,s it might be interesting for them to be equipped with Meteor for example ,thats of course they are all the same block 4 ,you would expect that any R.N planes serving on a U.S.N ship would not have to bring their own


Return to “Joint Service”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests