Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Ron5
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Ron5 »

Little J wrote:I don't think it looks to bad... From above... At a distance... On a moonless night :twisted:
The best looking design was the first one kicked out of the competition: Bae/McD's entry.

Image

Ron5
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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inch wrote:so IF ive got this right and please correct me if ive got this wrong, the tempest model/design /shape has nothing to do with the actual future fighter aircraft design ,it was just a model showing one possible idea in a myriad of ideas about future tech that could possible go into some sort of future fighter aircraft design,so they could have shown a model of a huge flying saucer and said this is one possible idea shape of a new fighter aircraft with laser beams and future tech incorporated in it, and the money allocated is not for any actual aircraft design just tech that could be incorporated in said future aircraft but there is no actual aircraft design unless we get someone to collaborate with ? suppose its better than doing a lot of artwork ideas board .
95% hype.

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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95% buzzword noise (such as Swarm, Pilotless, Sixth-Generation etc.) for attracting investors and an ex-Replica concept model with some cosmetic updates....
:mrgreen:

bobp
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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Perhaps the investment will help make some of the above a reality? :geek:

inch
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by inch »

maybe a reality for future tech in typhoon/f35 but not a future fighter aircraft unless someone stumps up billions of pounds and that aint going to be this or future labour gov im affraid :thumbdown:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Lord Jim »

If the Government is going to pump £Bns into R&D at BAE into the next generation of air platform, they need to make damn sure they have full access to all IPR as well as joint ownership.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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I'm pretty sure Replica was based on the Bae/McD JSF design. Bae just needed a shape to test out their manufacturing technology/processes vs low RCS and they had the JSF design lying around.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by sunstersun »

do people know what sixth generation planes are? it's not really a defined concept yet.

like the important difference between generations isn't so much the actually capability, but the upgrade potential.

no matter how much you tinker with a fourth generation plane, you cannot add stealth, you cannot add completely new avionics and sensors that focus on situational awareness.

ergo a fourth gen plane has a cap.

we're talking about unmanned and energy weapons being the terminology for sixth gen, but the F-35 is already working on laser weapons that will be available with the new engine upgrade.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Ares »

Finally, a comment from our government officials.

On July 20, Defense Minister Onodera stated at a press conference after the cabinet meeting that the country will continue to consider the possibility of a joint development with the UK, such as the new fighter development program announced at the Farnborough Air Show.

This is an explanation of how the Defense Ministry is currently considering acquiring an F-2 successor. Minister Onodera said, "Nothing has been decided," such as his decision regarding development at the present time, but Britain needs to acquire a successor to the existing fighter, the Typhon, at the same time.

http://www.jwing.net/news/3329

Well, it's just our gov's first reaction about the Tempest. Still nothing new...

sunstersun
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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Oh Japan on board would be a giant coup over the French/Germans.

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

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Image

inch
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by inch »

Going to be a very long long long path before anybody decides to come together on a teaming up ie japan uk. , years away before that point and europe would prob love to get japan on board also and prib ttry sweetners thru nrw trade deal with japan , also usa wiil also try v hard to tie them into something also .uk got some good tech but lacks the money of france/ german combined program , same for usa loads of cash and cutting edge tech so who knows , shame uk couldnt get canada , australia on board to kick start an aircraft industry in australia and canada and then maybe japan and sweden or even brazil onboard

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Timmymagic »

Everyone seems to have missed this...

Looks like Tempest is shaking things up...


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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Timmymagic »

And I know its Sputnik but there are some direct quotes from Enders there as well...

https://sputniknews.com/business/201807 ... jet-units/

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by SKB »

"Merger" = takeover, product aquisition, rebranding and then employee redundancies.
Bollocks to Airbus. :evil:

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by shark bait »

Is Airbus hoping to pull another C-Series out of project Tempest?

Tempest is clearly shaking things up, a few weeks back he was wanting to dump the UK, now he wants a merger. I agree with SKS, Bollocks to Airbus, we need an option that isn't american and isn't Airbus.
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Lord Jim »

The last thing we want is to let Airbus have anything to do with whatever results from "Tempest". In fact we should stay away from the French as well, which by default will also mean the Germans. Fortunately we have time on our hands as our timeframe is longer than either of those two nations as we have gone down the F-35 route. I think the fact that BAe seems to have a plan going forward has caused the rest of Europe to go into a bit of a spin, as all they have done is talk around a table. There will probably be room for only two sixth generation platforms, one of which will come from the USA. France will want to be in charge of whatever they decide to pursue and will want Germany to back them. If we went for a cheaper lighter weight platform than the USA, the Swedes and a few other European nations could probably come on board. Something along the lines of the offspring of the Gripen and the F-35, being the formers size but the capabilities of the latter's "A" variant. We need to reverse the trend of manned platforms getting bigger and more complicated or at least halt the increases. IF we don't the next manned platform will to too expensive and not affordable in the numbers needed.

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by shark bait »

I agree, one of the key design points for the next generation should be affordability, the trend we are on at the moment is unsustainable, it's making the Americans worry so it must be real bad for the rest of the world. Exports are crucial to the success of the project, so it must avoid pricing out 90% of the world.

The Swedes have proven to be pretty good at balancing cost/capability problem, it would be great if the UK could import a bit of that into its project.

However do Sweden's need align with the UK's? they have a single engine air defense aircraft, whilst we require a twin engine air superiority fighter. Can those work together?
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inch
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by inch »

No please no ! Not airbus or europe , all. They want to do is take our tech then run the programe , like others have pointed out .but i bet the polititions in uk will try to tie us up to europe just to be friendly to europe with brexit becouse its polititions who dont learn anything from past , all they will remember and say wasnt. Typhoon a great european success working with europe , just. Mark my words folks .i think the tempest is the gov plan all along to work with germany and france tbh unfortunatly

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by serge750 »

Wasn't the F35 supposed to be a cheaper version of the F22...Wow a F35/gripen hybrid would be a good combo! perhaps the RAF need to go the one engine route...but would that preclude japans involvement ?

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by shark bait »

The F35 was, but then it tried to develop three different aircraft at the same time and ended up costing more. No surprise. Big lesson for the next generation is focus on doing less and doing it better.

I don't believe the UK should go down the single engine route, that pretty much precludes the UK from having a big high energy aircraft.

That's a problem because the high energy tactics work well with the beyond visual range tactics that are all the rage these days.
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by clinch »

Timmymagic wrote:Everyone seems to have missed this...

Looks like Tempest is shaking things up...

Wasn't he trying to stick the boot in the UK the other week. So he takes over the UK business and post-Brexit tells us he has to move all manufacturing to Eastern Europe or somewhere. Tell him to bollocks.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by Ron5 »

shark bait wrote:The F35 was, but then it tried to develop three different aircraft at the same time and ended up costing more. No surprise. Big lesson for the next generation is focus on doing less and doing it better.

I don't believe the UK should go down the single engine route, that pretty much precludes the UK from having a big high energy aircraft.

That's a problem because the high energy tactics work well with the beyond visual range tactics that are all the rage these days.
What are you guys talking about, the F-35 right now is less than half the price of an F-22 built a decade ago. Soon it will be a third of the price.

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by shark bait »

I mean costing more than expected, not more than an F22. It is no longer the affordable aircraft it once wanted to be, this is something tempest should try and correct (again).
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Post by sunstersun »

he changed tune real quick...

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