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Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby SKB » 20 Jul 2018, 17:13

Image
^ British Aerospace showed off its ACA (Agile Combat Aircraft) concept at Farnborough in 1982, from which the Typhoon was developed from.

Interesting to realise, that if it were Farnborough 1982 right now, British Aerospace would be showing off its Agile Combat Aircraft (ACA) concept model, which was eventually developed into the Experimental Aircraft Programme (EAP), which first flew in 1986. Which became the Typhoon!

I've added a new British Aerospace EAP thread for those unfamiliar with the Typhoon's early origins. It makes an interesting history comparison with the new Tempest project. What else happened in 1982? Here's a list to make some of you feel old!
Other events of 1982:
ITV franchises TVS, Central, TSW go on the air.
Catherine Middleton (the future Duchess of Cambridge) is born 9th January 1982
The Commodore 64 home computer is launched.
Mark Thatcher (Margaret Thatcher's son) disappears while driving in the Dakar Rally and is later rescued.
DeLorean Cars goes bust.
Queen Elizabeth II opens the Barbican Centre in London.
Canada is given its Constitution back.
The Falklands War begins on 2nd April and ends victoriously on 14th June.
Pope John Paul II visits the UK, the first visit of a reigning Pope.
Michael Fagan breaks into Buckingham Palace and spends ten minutes talking to the Queen!
1982 World Cup in Spain, won by Italy.
Prince William is born 21st June.
First CD player and Compact Discs are produced.
Channel 4 Television begins in the UK.
The Mary Rose is lifted from the seabed of the Solent after sinking in 1545.
The Ford Sierra is launched to replace the Ford Cortina.
John DeLorean is arrested for selling cocaine to undercover FBI agents.
Unemployment in the UK is around 14% of the workforce.
London's Thames Barrier is completed.
Women occupy the RAF Greenham Common airbase perimeter to protest US nuclear cruise missiles based there.

Does 2035 now seem a long time to wait for Tempest?!

cky7
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby cky7 » 20 Jul 2018, 23:07

sunstersun wrote:https://therestlesstechnophile.com/2018/07/20/french-defense-leadership-discusses-future-air-combat-systems/


Anyone notice that when they spoke about the system of systems at the end it was there will be a stealthy UCAV, a manoeuvrable supersonic manned fighter and a hypersonic missile.

Seemed pretty obvious they’re thinking FCAS, Rafale and scalp replacement there with something initially complimenting and one day replacing rafale- but only once it’s got right to the end of its (at least compared to typhoon well planned until recent whispers) development path...

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby SKB » 20 Jul 2018, 23:13


(Jane's) 20th July 2018
Peter Felstead, editor of Jane's Defence Weekly reports on the unveiling of the Tempest future fighter concept by the UK MoD at the Farnborough 2018. This next-generation fighter concept is being developed by ‘Team Tempest’: a UK industry/Ministry of Defence (MoD) team that currently involves BAE Systems, Leonardo, MBDA, and Rolls-Royce.


0:44 - "What this isn't is an actual aircraft program.... it's really a framework on which they ("Team Tempest") can develop new technologies and new techniques "

2:33 - "When we think about the future weapons systems for Tempest....directed-energy weapons, lasers if you like. But that presents a particular problem in terms of power. And to solve that, Rolls-Royce are looking to do something really innovative with the engines on this aircraft. They'll still be gas (jet) turbines but.... they'll actually have generators embedded within the aircraft itself, generating electrical energy driven by the kinetic energy from the engine, sufficient to power systems like a directed-energy weapon."



So by 2020, the MoD wants to see results of new technology ideas and by 2025 when a financial commitment for an actual new fighter to replace Typhoon needs to be made, all this Team Tempest work could end up inside the Franco-German plane with the UK as a partner, or in somebody elses plane.

So there won't be an actual Tempest plane, unless a whole bunch of other nations want it and want to join in too.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Jul 2018, 04:50

cky7 wrote: a hypersonic missile.
the only new bit (and the US have been at it for a while)

cky7 wrote:well planned until recent whispers [)] development path...
No plans that I know past F4 - which will only keep Rafale viable (and only just) until this replacement prgrm delivers. If it will

SKB wrote:all this Team Tempest work could end up inside the Franco-German plane with the UK as a partner, or in somebody elses plane.

Quite. It is just a msg that we "want to play".

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby jonas » 21 Jul 2018, 09:10

Well it is starting to create some interest from the 'big boys'.

Boeing would be 'thrilled' with role on new UK fighter-defence CEO

Reuters Staff

3 Min Read

FARNBOROUGH, England (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N), the world’s largest planemaker, would be “thrilled” to participate in a new British fighter jet programme, the company’s defence chief said, although she said Britain still needed to clarify details about the project.


Leanne Caret, chief executive of Boeing Defense, Space & Security, told Reuters in an interview at the Farnborough Airshow this week that Boeing was watching the situation but that it was premature to make more definitive statements.

“They are still going through own defence reviews and understanding where they’re going,” she said.

“If there is an opportunity where the Boeing Company can participate and play, we will be absolutely honoured and thrilled to be part of that journey,” she added.

Britain this week unveiled its plans to build a stealthy new future fighter jet called Tempest, launching a rival to the Franco-German programme first unveiled in the summer of 2017.




Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA) and Airbus (AIR.PA) are leading the Franco-German programme, while the British project will be run by BAE Systems (BAES.L), Italy’s Leonardo (LDOF.MI), engine maker Rolls Royce (RR.L), and missile maker MBDA.

It remains unclear whether the two projects could merge after Britain’s exit from the European Union, or whether Britain will forge new alliances, perhaps with Sweden’s Saab (SAABb.ST), maker of the Gripen fighter jet.

It may also look to Boeing (BA.N), which recently teamed with Brazil’s Embraer (EMBR3.SA) and has close ties to Saab, said Richard Aboulafia, vice president at Teal Group.

Teaming up with BAE, Saab and possibly Embraer on a new fighter would provide a serious counterweight to the Franco-German project, which has not yet awarded initial study contracts to Airbus and Dassault.

It would also offer Boeing, which builds F/A-18E/F and F-15 fighters, a chance to get back into a new fighter development programme after losing out to Lockheed Martin (LMT.N) on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter contract in 2001.

Reporting by Andrea Shalal; Editing by Edmund Blair
Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
Business News
July 21, 2018 / 2:34 AM / Updated 19 minutes ago

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Tempest414
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Tempest414 » 21 Jul 2018, 09:29

I think it would be a good move to join up with SAAB and also start talks with the Saudi's as by 2040 they will want a replacement for there F-15s and Typhoons and they can bring a big cheque book with them

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Defiance » 21 Jul 2018, 09:41

SKB wrote:
[box]0:44 - "What this isn't is an actual aircraft program.... it's really a framework on which they ("Team Tempest") can develop new technologies and new techniques "

[Snip]

So there won't be an actual Tempest plane, unless a whole bunch of other nations want to join in too.


Ding ding ding, we have a winnah!

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby SKB » 21 Jul 2018, 11:39

Defiance wrote:Ding ding ding, we have a winnah!

This sound?

:clap: :mrgreen:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby cockneyjock1974 » 21 Jul 2018, 14:11

Right I’m confused! Will this technology be put on a new Fighter bomber or existing aircraft? I thought the RAF were looking for a Tiffy replacement.
Also I was thinking about the internal bomb bay, one of the main benefits of the Buccaneer, was that it’s bomb bay could be reconfigured to house an internal fuel tank. This enabled the Buc to be a world class buddy buddy tanker. Which is why I believe it’s still the record holder of the longest ranged naval mission in history to date.
Getting to my point, Im glad that the concept art at least is showing a reconfigurable bomb bay. I’ve always mourned the Buc going out of service and speaking to an RAF ground crew pal of mine years ago, at Red Flag it was unbeatable the Yanks couldn’t believe this dated aircraft could perform so well. Maybe the future concept could be a worthy successor.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Jul 2018, 14:38

cockneyjock1974 wrote:Which is why I believe it’s still the record holder of the longest ranged naval mission in history to date.


Honduras, are you steady in your boots? :lol:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Pongoglo » 21 Jul 2018, 14:44

matt00773 wrote:I wasn't expecting any concept work or mock up to be unveiled, so that's a surprise. I have to state though that I'm completely underwhelmed by the Tempest design. The BAE Replica concept from many years ago looked more advanced and sleeker than this. I trust this is just an early idea that will quickly evolve as more and more money is spent on it. I particularly take issue to the outdated cockpit and nose form which looks like something from the 60s - SR-71 etc.


I got to sit in it yesterday and can confirm it looks great :-)The cockpit is huge and mounted high has fantastic visibility all round. Quiet clearly it owes much to Replica in its evolution and I agree in the nose there is something SR71. A colleuge of mine who worked on Replica tells me that the reason that it had such a sleek pointy nose was that the fixed array adar would be contained within the forward edge of the wing, a concept that to date has yet come to be, but hence Tempests nose looking more akin to F35 .

Amazed that they managed a full sized mock up and kept it a secret too - obviously the anaracks falling down on the job :-) Not even a grainy pic of the mock up under a tarpaulin - go team UK! Would have taken pics myself and posted here , but my smart phone battery had died , used it all up on the Harrier 2' s fantastic display put on by the Spanish 'Armada' including doing the Harrier classic and bowing to the crowd. A timely reminder that there are still many Harriers out there, and what we have lost.

Oh yes just to clarify it is twin engine and has a large bomb bay too , much like the F22 and Buccaneer and as pointed out elsewhere on here, both twin engine designs.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Jul 2018, 15:05

Pongoglo wrote:The cockpit is huge and mounted high has fantastic visibility all round.


Folks seem to have missed the joke...the jpg I posted about the Chinese one: ours is bigger than yours (theirs)

Pongoglo wrote:the fixed array adar would be contained within the forward edge of the wing, a concept that to date has yet come to b

PAK-FA -esq?

Pongoglo wrote:the anaracks falling down on the job

Just packing mine, to take it to the "within" the Arctic Circle endeavours

Pongoglo wrote:reminder that there are still many Harriers out there, and what we have lost.

- quite right: no more holidays! (exc. for me ... c u guys in a month, or so :D )

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Ron5 » 21 Jul 2018, 15:41

Bon voyage.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby sunstersun » 22 Jul 2018, 06:39

There's a lot of potential, just need to get that first partner. In life the first sale or money is always the hardest.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby bobp » 22 Jul 2018, 07:14

We appear to be in front of Franco-German future fighter program, as far as research goes, hope the Tempest program turns out a demonstrator, followed by some real orders.

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Little J » 22 Jul 2018, 08:48

So, I saw Tempest yesterday. Impressive model, could make a good starting point for a future program, wonder why they have the nose gear retracting backwards - waste's into potential bomb bay area. Cockpit tech looked impressive (if they can make it work).

As a side note, public air display was a massive disappointment (other than Spanish Harrier, US F-16 and red bull bo105), no A400m, no A380, no A220, E190-E2 left early doors, no Hercules role by Lockheed, no swan song from a Tonka, no Tiffies, BBMF one fly past, red arrows 2 (separated by a hour)planned flypasts (plus 2 unplanned time fillers), other than that nothing from RAF (even though its their birthday) and grand finale of the blade display team (announced as having a surprise, so stayed till the end in hope of Dave B just to find it was fireworks). Should have gone to RIAT :thumbdown:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 22 Jul 2018, 13:45

Little J wrote: red arrows 2 (separated by a hour)


They must have done the Folkestone Airshow in-between?

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Little J » 22 Jul 2018, 14:01

No was something at London Olympic stadium... It probably wasn't an hour, but time was starting to drag at that point :shifty:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Caribbean » 22 Jul 2018, 14:13

Little J wrote:As a side note, public air display was a massive disappointment (other than Spanish Harrier, US F-16 and red bull bo105), no A400m, no A380, no A220, E190-E2 left early doors, no Hercules role by Lockheed, no swan song from a Tonka, no Tiffies, BBMF one fly past, red arrows 2 (separated by a hour)planned flypasts (plus 2 unplanned time fillers), other than that nothing from RAF (even though its their birthday) and grand finale of the blade display team (announced as having a surprise, so stayed till the end in hope of Dave B just to find it was fireworks). Should have gone to RIAT


Yes, the display was pretty tame, to be honest. The BO-105 was VERY impressive, though - I've never seen a fully aerobatic helicopter display before. Not bad for a 1970's design. Unfortunately never got to the Tempest (shepherding around two first-time airshow attendees, who weren't quite as determined to see everything as me!). Mrs. C got a better view of the Red Arrows from our back garden, so as ACC says - could have taken in Folkestone in between.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby inch » 22 Jul 2018, 14:25

so IF ive got this right and please correct me if ive got this wrong, the tempest model/design /shape has nothing to do with the actual future fighter aircraft design ,it was just a model showing one possible idea in a myriad of ideas about future tech that could possible go into some sort of future fighter aircraft design,so they could have shown a model of a huge flying saucer and said this is one possible idea shape of a new fighter aircraft with laser beams and future tech incorporated in it, and the money allocated is not for any actual aircraft design just tech that could be incorporated in said future aircraft but there is no actual aircraft design unless we get someone to collaborate with ? suppose its better than doing a lot of artwork ideas board .

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby SKB » 22 Jul 2018, 14:51

@inch
Correct.

inch
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby inch » 22 Jul 2018, 15:02

clears that nugget up then ,so theirs no point talking about the model they shown to the public then cos that's got bugger all to do with the actual future fighter design ,I vote for the flying saucer concept personally give the folks a talking point if they see a load crossing their skies but its def got to have ray guns attached :thumbup:

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby inch » 22 Jul 2018, 15:04

and scare the crap out of them to boot ...

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby SKB » 22 Jul 2018, 15:49

jonas wrote:Boeing would be 'thrilled' with role on new UK fighter-defence CEO"

Image
I bet they would, after losing the JSF contest with their X-32.
No thanks. *worry mode* :?

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Re: Future UK Combat Aircraft (Project Tempest)

Postby Little J » 22 Jul 2018, 16:15

I don't think it looks to bad... From above... At a distance... On a moonless night :twisted:


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