Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Dahedd
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Dahedd »

jimthelad wrote:Futures names to include 'The Red Beastie', 'The Mosset', 'Joannas', 'The Thunderton' in no particular order other than the last must be Jo's (everyone eventually ends up there if for no other reason than a Good bar fight).
Good god man not Joannas, are you totally mad. Might as well call it a 'Flying STD'

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SKB
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SKB »

There used to be a Joanna's in Portsmouth before Harry Redknapp bought it and who definatley didnt burn it down in mysterious circumstances in an alleged insurance fraud to build a block of retirement flats on the site. Allegedly. ;)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

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Dahedd wrote:
jimthelad wrote:Futures names to include 'The Red Beastie', 'The Mosset', 'Joannas', 'The Thunderton' in no particular order other than the last must be Jo's (everyone eventually ends up there if for no other reason than a Good bar fight).
Good god man not Joannas, are you totally mad. Might as well call it a 'Flying STD'
Given the particular aroma in the old kipper fleet it feels about the same to me (including the sticky floor) and encompasses the inevitable conflict between the wet teams trying to go low to get a decent sonobuoy pattern or prosecute a datum and the dry team bitching about not having horizon to establish a good SA picture. That with the front of house apes snoozing off the night before, the plot nav rushing around (like the love lost airman trying to pull a howler) trying to find out where they are and the tacnav shouting a everyone (because someone spilt his pint or that he can't find the sub which he was tasked to do). Definitely sounds like Jo's to me (clap included).

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by SKB »

Image
(@NavyLookout) 13 March 2020
The second P-8A Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft “City of Elgin” has arrived in the UK

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

Finally getting there, any news on the 3rd aircraft?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Dahedd »

Mate I go out on the MTB with who works on them & is not long back from 6 months in Florida says the plan is 2 more by years end.

For what its worth he's also still very hopeful of them getting a few more on top of the planned 9.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

Two UK P-8s currently on the shutdown Boeing production line in Seattle

https://www.janes.com/article/95113/cov ... programmes

Very much the lesser of two evils.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

RAF declares IOC on P-8 Poseidon. We're finally back in the MPA game...unfortunately looks like a/c 3 and 4 might be delayed by the Boeing shutdown.


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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

There is a huge difference between Capability and Capacity. In many areas we have the former but seriously lack the latter. Great to see the P-8 in service though.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by jonas »

Parliamentary written answers 6th May 2020 :-


Ministry of Defence
Maritime Patrol Aircraft: Procurement
41914
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether the Government has signed contracts for (a) sonarbuoys, (b) harpoon anti-ship missiles and (c) Mark 54 Torpedoes systems on the RAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
A
Answered by: Jeremy Quin
Answered on: 06 May 2020

The P-8A Poseidon aircraft is being procured under a Foreign Military Sale with the US Government. With Government-to-Government agreements, there are no contracts as such; parties enter into binding arrangements instead. In the case of P-8A Poseidon, the scope of this agreement covers aircraft acquisition, initial spares and support, initial training (in the USA), procurement of training devices and initial sonobuoy and weapons procurement.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

jonas wrote:(a) sonarbuoys, (b) harpoon anti-ship missiles and (c) Mark 54 Torpedoes systems on the RAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
... good questions. Next: Is there commonality (version wise) in the stock of Harpoons that we will need to maintain between the P-8 fleet and our interim 5 installations on surface combatants?
- the answer might already be circulating; though hasn't caught my eye
- and if 'yes' that would make that interim choice more logical (sticking with Harpoon, rather than getting something else)
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
jonas wrote:(a) sonarbuoys, (b) harpoon anti-ship missiles and (c) Mark 54 Torpedoes systems on the RAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
... good questions. Next: Is there commonality (version wise) in the stock of Harpoons that we will need to maintain between the P-8 fleet and our interim 5 installations on surface combatants?
- the answer might already be circulating; though hasn't caught my eye
- and if 'yes' that would make that interim choice more logical (sticking with Harpoon, rather than getting something else)
Yep, that would be the most logical thing to do.
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Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:jonas wrote:
(a) sonarbuoys, (b) harpoon anti-ship missiles and (c) Mark 54 Torpedoes systems on the RAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.


... good questions. Next: Is there commonality (version wise) in the stock of Harpoons that we will need to maintain between the P-8 fleet and our interim 5 installations on surface combatants?
- the answer might already be circulating; though hasn't caught my eye
- and if 'yes' that would make that interim choice more logical (sticking with Harpoon, rather than getting something else)
There's absolutely no confirmation in the answer that Harpoon has been ordered. I suspect thay haven't. I certainly haven't seen evidence that they have.

Happy to be corrected.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Tempest414 »

If someone has ordered Harpoon for the RAF P-8 when it is going out of service with the RN then that person needs to be take into a room and have their dick put in a vice. if Harpoon is to be ordered for the P-8 then we need to stick with it for the the fleet

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Tempest414 wrote:If someone has ordered Harpoon for the RAF P-8 when it is going out of service with the RN
I wonder if this (from end of August '19) has changed in any way?
" the MoD Weapons, Torpedoes, Tomahawk and Harpoon (TTH) Project Team issued a Contract Notice (CN) which outlines more of the requirements for a new weapon to replace the Harpoon Block 1C anti-ship missiles.

In March 2019 the MoD issued a Prior Information Notice (PIN), not a formal request for tender but a document that sets out their general requirements to potential contractors. This provided reassurance the obsolete Harpoon 1C would actually be replaced by an interim purchase. Until 2017 the RN had accepted that budget pressures meant Harpoon would go out of service in 2020 with no replacement. The retirement date was pushed back to 2023 and now funding has been secured to replace the system, at least on a modest scale.

The PIN states the available budget would be up to £200M, enough to buy a stock of missiles, logistic and training support until the FCASW is available in the early 2030s.
"

Hence, it would be interesting to know
- if we are getting any Harpoons for our P-8s
- and if so, other than the "display models" alluded to in the answer - of course the answer was reciting the generic terms of FMS contracts, not the specifics of the deal for our P-8s - will the stock to be purchased for the above indicated (not confirmed) 200 mln be interchangeable between platforms

Just asking, does anyone actually know?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

Tempest414 wrote:If someone has ordered Harpoon for the RAF P-8 when it is going out of service with the RN then that person needs to be take into a room and have their dick put in a vice. if Harpoon is to be ordered for the P-8 then we need to stick with it for the the fleet
Harpoon in RN surface fleet service is the 80s vintage steam-driven Block 1C. Any version ordered for the P-8 (and I doubt is has been) would be a completely different weapon.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Tempest414 »

For me if the MOD is going to support Harpoon for the P-8 then it needs to keep it in the fleet as for the 200 million put up for the I-SSGW Boeing have said that they can upgrade old harpoon missiles to Block 11-ER for 620,000 dollars or make new for 1.2 million dollars with this being said if we could upgrade our current stock with this money we could have enough to fit them to 12 ships of the fleet

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

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Tempest414 wrote:Boeing have said that they can upgrade old harpoon missiles to Block 11-ER for 620,000 dollars or make new for 1.2 million dollars
Genuine question. Where?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

The last I heard no funding had been put in place yet for the interim ASHM purchase, as was pointed out in the NAO report. Also whilst there would be commonality in the maintenance of the two type of Harpoon, air launched and surface launched they may not be interchangeable without substantial work. In any case we will probably be getting any Harpoons and Mk54s with an imbedded contractor support package, so little if any maintenance would be carried out by RAF personnel or even at the unit. A set number would be available at any one time for use by the P-8s. Obviously here would be cost benefit to extend this to cover the surface launched version compared to purchasing a different AShM for the Interim requirement but this should rule this out. Finally the quantities to be ordered for both requirement are so small that there would be little saving to be made by choosing the same missile, in two variants.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: whilst there would be commonality in the maintenance of the two type of Harpoon, air launched and surface launched they may not be interchangeable without substantial work
This was actually the question I posed.

Norway reported that as the A2A for F35 after their previous fighter was going to be different, they made a 50% saving in getting those same (earlier) missiles into use in their mobile AD batteries, paying "fresh" cash for all the other parts needed
- Finland, similarly, but without any numbers has been espousing the use of the same missile in AAD and on their fighter a/c
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Tempest414
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by Tempest414 »

RichardIC wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:Boeing have said that they can upgrade old harpoon missiles to Block 11-ER for 620,000 dollars or make new for 1.2 million dollars
Genuine question. Where?
To be fair it was on Wikipedia but it is also on other sites

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RichardIC
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

Tempest414 wrote:To be fair it was on Wikipedia but it is also on other sites
Thanks, found it.

It was a proposal for the LCS to give them over-the-horizon strike. It was withdrawn from the competition by Boeing who clearly realised they were backing a loser (NSM won).

They said they would continue development. That was three years ago.

https://news.usni.org/2017/05/02/boeing ... ompetition

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by jonas »

Parliamentary written answers 12th May 2020 :-

Asked by Mr Kevan Jones
(North Durham)
Asked on: 01 May 2020
Ministry of Defence
Maritime Patrol Aircraft: Procurement
41919
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, with reference to page 60 of the Defence Equipment Plan 2019, published on 27 February 2020, what steps his Department has taken to reduce the cost of the P-8 contract from £2.392 billion to £2.203 billion.
A
Answered by: Jeremy Quin
Answered on: 12 May 2020

The approved cost for delivery of the P-8A Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft project is £2.392 billion. However, at the point when the information for the Defence Equipment Plan 2019 was prepared, the forecast cost of the project was £2.203 billion. A robust project management regime is in place which enables the financial forecast to be revised and refined as the project progresses through its lifecycle and more detail becomes known, for example as actual costs replace expected ones.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Post by jonas »

A case for replacing Sentinal R.1 with P-8A :-

https://rusi.org/publication/rusi-defen ... a-poseidon

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