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Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Jensy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Jensy » 24 Jul 2020, 02:10

Ron5 wrote:Or will it be this wingman thingie? which won't be cheap I guarantee, well unless it can't do much, in case it will just be a smarter Storm Shadow. It which case in might be a cheap aircraft but a frikkin expensive missile.


I'd say this is going to be the billion £/$ question.

Probably, slightly/very going off topic (but will try and link it back to Typhoon!)

The UK is heading towards a future fleet of two medium-weight, mult-role fighters with overlapping capabilities, so much so that they compete for international sales. As you pointed out, neither have decent enough range to be 'strategic' in the old sense.

Once upon a time there was Taranis, supposedly a first step towards an advanced, stealth programme for a 'strategic' bomber, that took over from the FOAS as the eventual Tornado replacement. We flirted with the French about a joint effort only to be dumped for the Germans, promising stability and Euros.

So with no big UCAV to build, or other long-range option anytime soon, the Loyal Wingman is potentially the RAF's next combat aircraft. The 3D model promises lots of capability for what looks like a:
frikkin expensive missile.
but your guess is as good as mine. Still, whatever project Mosquito actually is seeking to deliver is barely at a pre-concept stage.

All this uncertainty is down to our present and future economic situation, which is unfortunately linked to a breakdown in the global order. Regardless of what fantastic flying machines might be whizzing about in 2035, for now Typhoon and small numbers of F-35 (of any flavour) are all we've got.

If you're 'Team Typhoon' this should be a golden opportunity. We've got 140 odd of the things, some almost factory fresh. There are opportunities to sell abroad and for the existing partnership to:

SW1 wrote:Go for a full upgrade along the lines outlined

“These range from performing a technical refresh of the Typhoon’s current capabilities to a full update, replacing the type’s entire avionics and system architecture.

Engine and flight-control system enhancements could seek to boost the fuel-efficiency of the type’s Eurojet EJ200 turbofans, in conjunction with the use of an aerodynamic modification kit.“

as well as put more funding into the loyal wingman air vehicle and potentially hypersonic/future standoff weapons systems.


The problem (that has plagued the Eurofighter since the 80s) is the lack of coordinated or sustained investment from the main partner nations. Without it, you end up with duplication and wasted opportunities to upgrade other aspects of the aircraft.

There might be many flaws in the way F-35 was developed. However, the concept of mapping out future upgrades, across many national fleets and services, well in advance is a massive improvement on the way Typhoon has/is being managed.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 01 Aug 2020, 20:07

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... d-tornados

The event during the Luftwaffe’s Timber Express exercise over northern Germany and the North Sea, announced by the company on 30 July, saw national Eurofighter and Panavia Tornado aircraft demonstrate interconnectivity with an RC network using the Link 16 datalink.

“During the exercise, the Remote Carriers, which currently use the Compact Airborne Networking Data Link (CANDL), were successfully connected to Link 16, the operational tactical datalink of the armed forces. The Remote Carriers were not only visible to all tactical combat aircraft of the [German] Air Force, but could also receive and execute orders without the need for technical modifications to the aircraft,” Airbus said.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 03 Aug 2020, 11:52

QRA North to temporarily move to Leuchars and training to Kinloss:
https://www.forces.net/news/raf-lossiem ... orary-move

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 30 Aug 2020, 17:47

Ron5 wrote:Or will Tempest be the new Tornado? Seems big enough, with big internal bomb bays Or will Tempest just be the new 6th gen Spitfire like Typhoon is the 4th gen Spit?


That's a v good question as Tempest seems to be the size of F-15 (Strike Eagles included). I guess the answer will evolve with how much the initiative will be able to deliver for Typhoon upgrades... probably more on the airsuperiority side of things than sharpening it up for long-range interdiction.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 31 Aug 2020, 22:04

Maybe "Strike Eagle" isn't a bad comparison, though I think Air to Air will have priority over Air to Ground.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 01 Sep 2020, 00:35

I can't imagine either Sweden or Italy wanting a large aircraft.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Pseudo » 01 Sep 2020, 12:10

Ron5 wrote:I can't imagine either Sweden or Italy wanting a large aircraft.

Last time I checked Sweden apparently still doesn't want any aircraft, large or small. Their interest in the Tempest programme seems purely about the technologies. I assume that they're looking at adapting what they can to a more advanced Gripen variant. As for Italy, I assume that they want something that can operate comfortably over North Africa from their southern bases and the Tornado ADV wasn't exactly a pygmy. :)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 01 Sep 2020, 15:34

Pseudo wrote:As for Italy, I assume that they want something that can operate comfortably over North Africa from their southern bases and the Tornado ADV wasn't exactly a pygmy.


I don't think you know much about Italy and Tornado ADV :cry:

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby seaspear » 01 Sep 2020, 23:56

In respect to the Pirate infrared system mounted on the Eurofighter , would the Eurofighter benefit from having more sensors added to the aircraft of this ability , the present sensor is mounted over the nose on the left there does not seem to be any information on its field of scan and it would not be expected to be the same as its radar which is why I wondered if additional sensors could be fitted to other regions of the aircraft as per this article for another aircraft
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/senso ... et-fighter

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 02 Sep 2020, 09:27

The Pirate IRST covers the frontal arc of the Typhoon level with its flight path and above to a certain angle, though this can be altered by the attitude of the aircraft. I believe Pirate is still state of the art compared to other systems out there and its position id probably better than what both the USAF and USN are adopting by installing the seeker under the fuselage on the centreline station. I also believe the Pirate IRST is linked to the pilots helmet.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby seaspear » 02 Sep 2020, 14:31

I am not arguing against the capability of Pirate but would note it cannot view 365 degrees as the f35 and even claimed on the newer Chinese aircraft

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 02 Sep 2020, 15:37

Lord Jim wrote:The Pirate IRST covers the frontal arc of the Typhoon level with its flight path and above to a certain angle, though this can be altered by the attitude of the aircraft. I believe Pirate is still state of the art compared to other systems out there and its position id probably better than what both the USAF and USN are adopting by installing the seeker under the fuselage on the centreline station. I also believe the Pirate IRST is linked to the pilots helmet.


I believe Pirate is being replaced/upgraded so probably not up to scratch right now.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Pseudo » 02 Sep 2020, 16:58

seaspear wrote:I am not arguing against the capability of Pirate but would note it cannot view 365 degrees as the f35 and even claimed on the newer Chinese aircraft

365 degrees?!? Now that's impressive! :D

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 02 Sep 2020, 18:05

Ron5 wrote:I believe Pirate is being replaced/upgraded so probably not up to scratch right now.


Cheers for that bit of info, I shall do some digging tonight to fond out more. AS for the F-35 and the latest Chinese fighter (Which one?) having a IRST that can scan 365 degrees, though I would have thought 3690 degrees would be more then enough, does the F-35 even have an IRST?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby seaspear » 02 Sep 2020, 22:40

I said 365 I should have said 360 degrees my bad.
https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/missionsystems
the Chinese aircraft has been claimed to be the Chengdu j-29 with six cameras mounted around the aircraft the same as the f35 , Im not sure of the capability of the Russian fighter jet the Sukoi-57 in this regard

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby seaspear » 03 Sep 2020, 08:53

Is this something that Leonardo is working on that may be added to the Eurofighter
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-lau ... protection

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 03 Sep 2020, 09:52

seaspear wrote:Is this something that Leonardo is working on that may be added to the Eurofighter
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-lau ... protection


Don't know much about IR detection but could imagine that as this one will be
"The primary role of MAIR is to detect and warn of incoming missiles. As part of a defensive aids suite, MAIR can significantly improve the survivability of crews by detecting, tracking, classifying and declaring that an incoming missile is a threat"
and uses 6 cameras for coverage, there might be a role for a more powerful one for target detection at extreme ranges?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 03 Sep 2020, 11:12


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Jensy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Jensy » 03 Sep 2020, 12:30

Typically vague yet highly detailed press release.

It is planned to equip the RAF Typhoon aircraft from the mid-2020s.


How many Typhoons?

Pretty certain the remaining Tranche 1s aren't viable to upgrade.

The Tranche 3 models are pre-wired for Aesa radar and it's requirements.

Which leaves the majority of the fleet, the c.67 Tranche 2 aircraft that are 'semi-prepared' for Aesa. Apparently require additional cooling at the very least.

How much more is that going to add to R&D/integration costs that are already £317m, without any radars bought?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby inch » 03 Sep 2020, 13:07

Can Someone explain to me ,is this the same radar the Germans and Spanish have newly committed to upgrade too or a new future upgraded development of it for the RAF ,ie same as theirs or improved upon ,I couldn't work it out? Thanks folks

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby abc123 » 03 Sep 2020, 13:25

inch wrote:Can Someone explain to me ,is this the same radar the Germans and Spanish have newly committed to upgrade too or a new future upgraded development of it for the RAF ,ie same as theirs or improved upon ,I couldn't work it out? Thanks folks


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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby inch » 03 Sep 2020, 14:27

Thanks abd123 your a good man .so I wonder if the main difference between German and RAF versions will be more electronic attack bias in the RAF version going off previous article ?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby jonas » 03 Sep 2020, 14:51

More from Defense-Aerospace dated Sept 3rd :-

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... phoon.html

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby cyrilranch » 03 Sep 2020, 17:15

jonas wrote:More from Defense-Aerospace dated Sept 3rd :-

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... phoon.html

jonas wrote:More from Defense-Aerospace dated Sept 3rd :-

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... phoon.html


It been reported this is a just a development upgrade contact compare to what the Spanish and germans are geting which is a mk1 version now. THERE is at present no production or and refit contact. It's just money being spent on what could be. It could end up just like fres where 2 billion has been spent with no produ tion vehicles being delivered.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby dmereifield » 03 Sep 2020, 18:51

It's interesting to see that this investment doesn't make mention of Tempest, or isn't badged as "Tempest funding", given that some of the early sceptical comments of the Tempest programme was that it was just a shell/vehicle for research, development and Typhoon upgrade programmes as opposed to a legit programme aimed at developing a new fighter aircraft


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