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Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
abc123
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby abc123 » 21 Feb 2019, 17:30

Timmymagic wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:I do not think the German Government should be worried about legal action by its international partners, its own Defence Industry will fill that role as it is already doing.


An order for 33 Typhoon from the Luftwaffe and a promise of further orders to replace Tornado after they've removed the only credible competitor from the competition is more than enough compensation to the German defence industry. Whilst the UK benefits from their workshare its not going to keep our production line open. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Typhoon partners agreement will not allow arbitrary actions like Germany's from affecting the other partners....if it does they are going to get absolutely rinsed in court. But the damage done will be considerable.



What if, say UK Gov refuses export of British produced parts for new German Typhoons as response?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby seaspear » 21 Feb 2019, 18:50

Perhaps another question would be what it would take to bring all of the present German Eurofighters up to operational readiness and why this has not been addressed , you could be forgiven to believe that the emphasis is on building the aircraft and promoting jobs than having a feasible air force

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Pseudo » 21 Feb 2019, 19:55

abc123 wrote:What if, say UK Gov refuses export of British produced parts for new German Typhoons as response?

What would prevent Germany from retaliating and blocking the export of German produced spare parts for RAF Typhoons?

I also expect that the German government would sue the crap out of the British government.

Basically, escalating things would end badly for everyone involved.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby mr.fred » 21 Feb 2019, 21:42

Would it actually make a difference to Luftwaffe serviceability rates?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 22 Feb 2019, 11:50

seaspear wrote:Perhaps another question would be what it would take to bring all of the present German Eurofighters up to operational readiness and why this has not been addressed , you could be forgiven to believe that the emphasis is on building the aircraft and promoting jobs than having a feasible air force


Quite. If they were serious about their capability they would spend the money not on 33 new Typhoons, but on getting their Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoons up to the full RAF standard with PIRATE and the P3E enhancements, chuck in some spare parts and training/flying hours and that would have an immeasurably greater impact on their air force than 33 new aircraft that will inevitably be grounded in a short period of time due to poor procurement of support and parts.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 22 Feb 2019, 15:38

Timmymagic wrote: If they were serious about their capability they would spend the money not on 33 new Typhoons, but on getting their Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoons up to the full RAF standard with PIRATE and the P3E enhancements, chuck in some spare parts

bridge building; defence industrial angle ( I guess that is exactly what you said?)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 22 Feb 2019, 16:12

Timmymagic wrote:As for Saudi I’m torn on that one part of me says good on them for taking a stand against standards that no one should agree with. You accept the standard you walk past after all. Or is business just business and try to conjole in the background away from the public eye.


My apologies SW1, I accidentally edited instead of quoted your post. I'm afraid I don't recall what it is you said. - Retro

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby RetroSicotte » 22 Feb 2019, 16:37

I see them as more an opportunity.

Them using UK based planes like Typhoon gives us more control, understanding, and oversight on a nation that ought to have more of it from the international community. They'd have planes regardless, if it wasn't ours they'd buy French, or American, or Russian. And by that point you've lost the power you had to steer them, and to influence them.

Much of the Saudi's limited progression has been to improve its image to the nations it relies on to avoid stuff like this.

In the end, I value that ability to have an influence to help stop them regressing into something worse. They deserve to be critiqued, but not abandoned. That won't fix anything when they wouldn't be otherwise hurt anyway. Engagement is progression.

That and I care very deeply about the jobs and livelihoods of people in this country who require the industry that comes from it. It's not nice, but that's global life. I don't exactly see anyone else lining up to buy 48 Typhoons and munitions sourced from the UK.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 22 Feb 2019, 16:46

That’s ok retro easy done

It was in general along those lines on the one hand I admire the Germans for holding the Saudis feet to the fire as the standard you walk past is the one you accept but on the other hand do you just say business is business and work behind the scenes.


Also mentioned the Germans were more focused on national and nato air defence rather than offensive operations with typhoon and while have issues with spares holdings and in particular personnel with the right experience they are not alone in that regard.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 22 Feb 2019, 17:23

SW1 wrote:the Germans were more focused on national and nato air defence rather than offensive operations with typhoon

Which now - assuming the SH/ Growler option is beaten - will change.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 22 Feb 2019, 19:35

SW1 wrote:the Germans were more focused on national and nato air defence rather than offensive operations with typhoon


They are obviously over compensating from when in the good old days they were not responsible for policing their own airspace, rather the RAF and USAF had those duties.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Qwerty » 22 Feb 2019, 21:05


topman
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby topman » 23 Feb 2019, 07:08



ASuW role (tick)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 23 Feb 2019, 07:42

What a pity; it wasn't a moving target:
"Typhoons patrolled the Euphrates valley on Tuesday 19 February; a boat had been identified as being used by Daesh, and was found by the Typhoons to be moored on the river bank due south of Baghuz Fawqani"

The ripple launch in Libya (by a Tornado) was also at a stationary tank 'park'.

Getting realistic targets organised, for proving the world-beating capability is proving elusive...
USAF & Canada have gone to greater lengths in training
"In addition to the low-flying A-10s, this particular exercise included U.S. Navy helicopters and faster-flying Canadian Forces CF-188 Hornet multi-role fighters. To make the training more realistic, the Air Force hired more than 30 local civilian mariners to pilot their own “pirate” craft around the practice area in the Gulf of Mexico."
and obviously the live firing was not against these targets, but the feel for the time window (fly slower/ faster) for targeting was realistic.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Tempest414 » 19 Mar 2019, 11:06

With the move to a all Typhoon front line at this time would it be a good move for the RAF to move from a 12 jet to a 10 jet fast jet squadrons. At this time we have 7 Typhoon squadrons with 84 jets we could move to 8 sqn's with 80 jets in two wings of 40 jets or if we could find 6 more jets to give us 90 jets move to 3 wings of 30 jets this could allow us to deploy easier if I work with the 3 wing option it could work like so. Each squadron would be made up of 10 jets split into 2 flights and have 15 pilots this would allow Wing 1 to deploy 15 jets on operations like Shader for 6 months with staff doing 3 month deployments then be replaced by Wing 2. Wing 3 could at the same time deploy a Flight of 5 jets on ops like BAP and all 3 wings could still cover the UK QRA and attend stuff like Red Flag

Wing 1 RAF Coningsby
3 Sqn
9 Sqn
11 Sqn

Wing 2 RAF Lossiemouth
1 Sqn
2 Sqn
6 Sqn

Wing 3 RAF Leeming
12 Sqn
15 Sqn
19 Sqn

SW1
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 19 Mar 2019, 18:30

I had heard it said that when the go ahead to increase the typhoon force to 7 sqns they looked at Leeming for bases and decided after they got the infrastructure upgrade Bill that it was too far gone to be financially practical.

I think people,on the typhoon force maybe more an issue than jet numbers, BAE had been consulted about taking over the OCU to free up RAF personnel to help expand the fleet to 7 operational units.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby topman » 19 Mar 2019, 19:53

Not just the infrastructure at leeming but you couldn't share out the equipment and spares across the two MOB, you'd need another set of all sorts of things.
Not that expanding con/los are cheap, once you look at things like MQs. Full to bursting in Lincolnshire but not so bad at leeming. Then you've things like airspace, size and distance away. Hangars; not too bad plus you've got a couple of HAS sites, nothing at con needs a new build, just about enough space at lossie. Plus a whole load of other things.

I think it was 6 of one and half dozen of the other in the end.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Tempest414 » 20 Mar 2019, 08:06

I do understand that 3 Wings is a bit of push at this time due to budgets however the move to 8 Sqn's with 10 jets plan could be a good move as it opens up more promotions across all ranks which helps retention plus it is easier to expand a Sqn of 10 jets to 12 or 14 in time of war than make a new Sqn.

Also if the money could be found to put a 3rd wing at Leeming it would cover off the loss of Lossiemouth if the Scots voted out of the UK as the 6 remaining Sqn's at Coningsby and Leeming would get 2 more aircraft each and the Scots would be left with 14 jets

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downsizer
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby downsizer » 20 Mar 2019, 09:19

This shit makes me laugh.

Pure fantasy, there aren’t enough maintenance staff nor pilots for this pipe dream. Can barely find manning for 12 Sqn as it is.

Jokers.

Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Tempest414 » 20 Mar 2019, 09:38

oh dear downsizer is this your name or just your dream

A move to 8 Sqn's with 10 jets per unit in 2 Wings would use less Pilots and jets and the same maintenance staff but would give a better promotion route for all ranks and as said it is easier to add pilots and jets to a Sqn than to stand up a new Sqn in war time

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downsizer
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby downsizer » 20 Mar 2019, 11:00

Ok mate, you clearly know more than me about how RAF FJ Sqns work!

Crack on.

Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Tempest414 » 20 Mar 2019, 11:18

No one here knows anyone's back ground but don't let the French Flag lead you to think I am French. Just because something has been done for a 100 years does not mean it can not and should not be changed

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 20 Mar 2019, 15:23

What is the state of Cottesmore? did the Army move in or was it turned into a housing estate.? Just wondering as there was a lot of investment in infrastructure when the JHF moved there for its brief stint before the force was canned.

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downsizer
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby downsizer » 20 Mar 2019, 16:37

Cottesmore is fully army-fied.

There are no plans to base Typhoons anywhere else than Con/Lossie. End of.

Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Tempest414 » 20 Mar 2019, 16:52

Totally correct as long as the Scots don't leave the UK only then will 3 Sqn's will need a new home as 12 jets would be left behind to from the new Scottish Air Force as laid out in the Scottish white paper


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