UK Defence Forum

SW1 wrote:the competition, which seeks a replacement for the 90-jet fleet

The article only talks about nukes, but a Growler in the mix might make things interesting.
" splitting the buy between the Typhoon and either the F-35 or Super Hornet." - with the F-35 now out.

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:the competition, which seeks a replacement for the 90-jet fleet

The article only talks about nukes, but a Growler in the mix might make things interesting.
" splitting the buy between the Typhoon and either the F-35 or Super Hornet." - with the F-35 now out.

Yeah I would actually like to see something like the Saab Arexis pods considered for typhoon possibly as part of a 2 seat a/c option with something like MALD-x. A German investment in a future buy could provide the impetus for some new options.

To someone more in the know:

What kind of modifications need to be made to certify an aircraft for nuclear missions?

Nowadays it probably means swapping a couple of black boxes and not much else. I am surprised that countries like Germany and Belgium are still willing to take on the nuclear role under NATO given how public perception has changes over the last few decades.

A load of wiring change/upgrade as well. And all the other stuff, won't be a cheap RTS.

The spams won't give them the green light for typhoon, it'll be at the bottom of the in tray for a long time.

Yes it's interesting for all the changes in public attitudes, governments of all flavours in several countries still keep and want in the future nuclear weapons.

topman wrote:Yes it's interesting for all the changes in public attitudes, governments of all flavours in several countries still keep and want in the future nuclear weapons.

How else are you going to keep nutters like Putin, Kim & Xi out of your backyard?

Ron5 wrote:

topman wrote:Yes it's interesting for all the changes in public attitudes, governments of all flavours in several countries still keep and want in the future nuclear weapons.

How else are you going to keep nutters like Putin, Kim & Xi out of your backyard?

Quite. Should China plays along, then INF survive. If it does not, then free-fall nukes become quite a marginal number:
"INF Treaty talks between Russia and the U.S. fail at summit - NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com/.../inf-treaty- ... sia-u-s-fa...

- Both sides have been meeting in Beijing, but Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov on Thursday said the talks had failed"

The R.A.F have purchased some 200 AIM 120-D missiles is there any advantage for an aircraft like the Typhoon to carry these and the Meteor at the same time ?

Possible a new pylon with a special interface and a communication link for the nuclear authorisation. Biggest single issue maybe ITAR to allow the yanks access to the inner workings of typhoon mission management system and getting the nesseary data for the bomb from the Americans.

I see the Germans are buying new typhoons to replace there tranche 1 a/c as well.

SW1 wrote:I see the Germans are buying new typhoons to replace there tranche 1 a/c as well

What does that make the numbers look like? The starting point was replacing a 90-strong fleet (not seen 1 for 1 stated anywhere), and these (now) would be an addition to that

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote:I see the Germans are buying new typhoons to replace there tranche 1 a/c as well

What does that make the numbers look like? The starting point was replacing a 90-strong fleet (not seen 1 for 1 stated anywhere), and these (now) would be an addition to that

The Germans have 30 odd tranche 1 jets. Believe this is typhoons in the configuration offered to Belgium.

If they are looking at alternatives to Typhoon just for nuclear delivery, is it possible that they just retain 1 small squadron of Tornados - life extending by reducing use and cannibalizing their fleet (and possibly ours)?

It will probably be a small number of Typhoons that are actually wired for "Nukes", spread amongst the two or three wings that will operate the new planes. WE can just sit in the fence and wait and see what happens and let the Germans cover the cost of integrations.

dmereifield wrote:If they are looking at alternatives to Typhoon just for nuclear delivery, is it possible that they just retain 1 small squadron of Tornados - life extending by reducing use and cannibalizing their fleet (and possibly ours)?

Not impossible, it's a political rather than military decision.

Ron5 wrote:

topman wrote:Yes it's interesting for all the changes in public attitudes, governments of all flavours in several countries still keep and want in the future nuclear weapons.

How else are you going to keep nutters like Putin, Kim & Xi out of your backyard?

To Germany and Belgium etc, the former may be of some limited concern, the latter two may as well be on the dark side of the moon.

topman wrote:the latter two may as well be on the dark side of the moon.

Guess who said this then:
"Perhaps the most pressing matter for EU-Asia security cooperation at this time, however, is de-nuclearisation. We share an interest to save the Iran nuclear deal and to support de-nuclearisation talks in the Korean Peninsula. This is why the European Union is already fully engaged with Asian partners on both of these pressing issues. China is a signatory of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, while it is also key to global efforts to bring about the complete, verifiable and irreversible de-nuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula. Likewise, Japan, the Republic of Korea and others all have a major stake in making sure that the nuclear deal with Iran is preserved and the Korean Peninsula is de-nuclearised. We all do. Global peace requires a global effort.

Going forward, as EU Foreign Ministers today emphasised, we need to move to new actions. The EU will expand its cooperation with Asian partners into areas such as capacity building, training programmes – including on UN peacekeeping – and joint exercises"

topman wrote:

Ron5 wrote:

topman wrote:Yes it's interesting for all the changes in public attitudes, governments of all flavours in several countries still keep and want in the future nuclear weapons.

How else are you going to keep nutters like Putin, Kim & Xi out of your backyard?

To Germany and Belgium etc, the former may be of some limited concern, the latter two may as well be on the dark side of the moon.

"Like" in this context means "for example". Sigh.

BAE negotiating the sale of 48 additional Typhoons to Saudi, plan includes for the first time Meteor long-range, ramjet-powered air-to-air missiles that the Saudis also plan to retrofit to their earlier Typhoon batches as well as, possibly F-15 fighters.

It appears Germany embargo on arms sales to Saudi will stop the sale of Meteor as amongst other components the Germans build the Meteor ramjet motor.

Mention of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann suing German Government on embargo of sale of Pzh 2000 155 mm to Saudi ?

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ation.html

That site forever entertains me.

This website has endlessly been trying to make France look good at every chance, so those choice of words to imply Meteor is French and avoid mentioning the UK as much as possible in relation to it seems very specific!

I'll never forget how salty their articles on T26 beating FREMM were.

A lot of chatter on Twitter about an imminent announcement from German for an order of 33 Eurofighters to replace their Tranche 1's

dmereifield wrote: 33 Eurofighters to replace their Tranche 1's

The spec for those that will(?) replace their Tornados, in a different role, will be much more interesting - but will take time to emerge

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

dmereifield wrote: 33 Eurofighters to replace their Tranche 1's

The spec for those that will(?) replace their Tornados, in a different role, will be much more interesting - but will take time to emerge

Ok, I was just pleased to see the order go through for the benefit of UK plc

Me, too, as the two German orders will take the production way past the 2022-24 where it has been hanging for years, on speculation (and realisation) of export deals
- but, also, there is so much potential for future enhancements
- we have our (one) foot in the stealth camp... that is an enabler for a bold approach with Typhoon & Tempest

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Me, too, as the two German orders will take the production way past the 2022-24 where it has been hanging for years, on speculation (and realisation) of export deals
- but, also, there is so much potential for future enhancements
- we have our (one) foot in the stealth camp... that is an enabler for a bold approach with Typhoon & Tempest

Good, hopefully we'll see a second German order soon enough to replace the Tornados. Still hoping we might see that elusive second Saudi order at some point too

seaspear wrote:The R.A.F have purchased some 200 AIM 120-D missiles is there any advantage for an aircraft like the Typhoon to carry these and the Meteor at the same time ?

Absolutely none whatsoever, in fact it may cause more issues than it solves as I doubt they test the aircraft carrying dissimilar loads on the conformal stations. They will test an aircraft to simulate the effect on handling of a conformal station being empty as a result of a launch or jettison. But throughout the RAF's use of fighters with semi-conformal stations (F.4, Tornado F.3 and Typhoon) I've never seen mixed loads on missiles on the stations (with the exception of captive training rounds).

in all probability the AIM-120D are aimed for the Tranche 1 Typhoons and F-35 as they will either never have Meteor or will not get it until 2025ish (F-35) and the current C-5's need re-lifing. We're also not sure if we will in fact order 200 or 'up to' that figure.