Ohh, I see. Tell us moreRon5 wrote:You clearly don't comprehend
Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Don't think they have the cash or the engineering resource at present, and won't for a fair few years. The loss of the Embraer deal has killed them in that segment.SW1 wrote:Boeing will still be here but it needs to light a fire under a new small jet as soon as it gets max back in the air.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
There in it up to there necks and then some alright but they can’t abandon that part of the market, it’s what funds everything else.Timmymagic wrote:Don't think they have the cash or the engineering resource at present, and won't for a fair few years. The loss of the Embraer deal has killed them in that segment.SW1 wrote:Boeing will still be here but it needs to light a fire under a new small jet as soon as it gets max back in the air.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
+Timmymagic wrote:the Embraer deal has killed them in that segment.
Now that we have defined the "three-legged stool", Ron will come back (in due course; time difference...) and tell us more about how well the wings of the military offering will carry themSW1 wrote: they can’t abandon that part of the market, it’s what funds everything else.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
But the price is just about the same. And F-35 is a new generation.SW1 wrote:The point I’m getting at is no matter how wonderful some people think something is if in the case of the Dutch they end up only able to deploy 4 a/c or maybe 6 a/c if they spend more it is getting to the point where it’s nearly irrelevant what it can do given the outlay required to get there .
A new build block 70 f16 would of been sufficient for there requirements and then some and that goes for a whole lot of others too.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
How many Boeing products are in UK military service? How much money is flowing from the UK to Boeing?
And maybe you nitwits forgot who won the US trainer competition.
Sigh.
And maybe you nitwits forgot who won the US trainer competition.
Sigh.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Very rude, at least around here , to answer a question with a question.
Nevermind, this forum might still be running when we get to see the outcomes for both of the two companies we started with - i.e. the ones that have a three-legged stool to sit on, or have had, until now.
- speaking purely militarily (all aircombat - breathing ad non-breathing - as well as support that is not [much] of dual-use) of course makes for a wider play. The end of Cold War saw massive consolidation; I am not even trying to guess where we are headed on that broader front... like Cold War 2.0 between the US and China?
- a pity that there is nothing like the Schneider Trophy where these things could be tried out peacefully (1927 Venice, Italy Supermarine S.5 ;1929 Calshot Spit, United Kingdom Supermarine S.6; ˙
1931 Calshot Spit, United Kingdom Supermarine S.6B)
Nevermind, this forum might still be running when we get to see the outcomes for both of the two companies we started with - i.e. the ones that have a three-legged stool to sit on, or have had, until now.
- speaking purely militarily (all aircombat - breathing ad non-breathing - as well as support that is not [much] of dual-use) of course makes for a wider play. The end of Cold War saw massive consolidation; I am not even trying to guess where we are headed on that broader front... like Cold War 2.0 between the US and China?
- a pity that there is nothing like the Schneider Trophy where these things could be tried out peacefully (1927 Venice, Italy Supermarine S.5 ;1929 Calshot Spit, United Kingdom Supermarine S.6; ˙
1931 Calshot Spit, United Kingdom Supermarine S.6B)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Sorry about thatArmChairCivvy wrote:Very rude, at least around here , to answer a question with a question.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Now that would be something, possibly using the DAC range off Sardinia, with Nations sending teams as well as industry. Imagine the list, F-22, F-35, Typhoon, Rafale, JAS-39, F-16 (in various guises), F/A-18E and then you could add SU-30, Mig-35, J-10 and J-11. Testing a platforms speed and maneouverabilty around a designated course, all on live TV, Red Bull Air Races on steroids!!ArmChairCivvy wrote:a pity that there is nothing like the Schneider Trophy where these things could be tried out peacefully
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Looks like the potential Italian sale of 24 Typhoon to Egypt is actually a thing now, rather than speculation....Xav himself is reporting it.
Along with the potential 90 (possibly more) for Germany and 24 for Spain. If only we could get the remaining 48 for Saudi sorted, the Germans to order another 45, including ECR, instead of F/A-18E/F/G...we'd all be busy until 2030 at least for components. Needs the UK assembly line to keep running though.
Mind you, you have to wonder why Egypts support for war in Libya isn't seen as a blocker by Germany, whilst Saudi's war in Yemen is...
Along with the potential 90 (possibly more) for Germany and 24 for Spain. If only we could get the remaining 48 for Saudi sorted, the Germans to order another 45, including ECR, instead of F/A-18E/F/G...we'd all be busy until 2030 at least for components. Needs the UK assembly line to keep running though.
Mind you, you have to wonder why Egypts support for war in Libya isn't seen as a blocker by Germany, whilst Saudi's war in Yemen is...
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Great bit of business for Italy. 24 more for Spain, too? Did I miss that? Is that official?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
In regards to Egypt's war in Libya aren't they on the opposing side to Turkey a N.A.T.O Allie against a government recognized by Europe gets confusing money doesn't talk it shouts apparently
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Not official yet...but the Spanish military wants them to replace the earliest EF-18 which are almost out of flying hours.dmereifield wrote:Great bit of business for Italy. 24 more for Spain, too? Did I miss that? Is that official?
The question will be if they survive COVID-19...mind you, you could probably say the same about the stuck Saudi order for 48. Can they afford them with the oil price on the floor right now? I suspect they can, but will Germany ever give permission?
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Exactly the discussion France and Germany are having about the ground rules for "their" new fighter.Timmymagic wrote:will Germany ever give permission?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
It is good to see that potentially further orders will come as it keeps the order book going. There is ways round permission if you really wanted but it isn’t necessarily at bad thing there is caution around such things.
Typhoon is an extremely capable aircraft with significant amounts of evolutionary potential. It can be the centre of a future air system with a largish user base and from weapons to sensors to airframe to engine manufactures in the uk and elsewhere that can have and do help the economies and industries of the countries that use and produce it. New sensors, standoff weapon systems, unmanned wingman all can be invested in while lowering risk using a evolution for your manned element.
Typhoon is an extremely capable aircraft with significant amounts of evolutionary potential. It can be the centre of a future air system with a largish user base and from weapons to sensors to airframe to engine manufactures in the uk and elsewhere that can have and do help the economies and industries of the countries that use and produce it. New sensors, standoff weapon systems, unmanned wingman all can be invested in while lowering risk using a evolution for your manned element.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I would not rule out the RAF buying a few more also - two reasons:
- I can’t see the F35b order going far beyond 48 and whilst the F35A is an interesting option, is a stealth a/c the priority?
- Keeps production lines open and skills there ahead of a Tempest build.
- I can’t see the F35b order going far beyond 48 and whilst the F35A is an interesting option, is a stealth a/c the priority?
- Keeps production lines open and skills there ahead of a Tempest build.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I think you meant to write "would not rule out"?Repulse wrote:I would rule out the RAF buying a few more also - two reasons:
- I can’t see the F35b order going far beyond 48 and whilst the F35A is an interesting option, is a stealth a/c the priority?
- Keeps production lines open and skills there ahead of a Tempest build.
As for the first point, is Typhoon cheaper than an F35A? Aren't they coming in at something silly like $80million?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
There is an argument against acquiring the f35 for the R.A.F if the Tempest is to be later bought in twenty years, there is a similar argument for Germany not purchasing the f35a because of concerns by France over its own development plan
I would suggest that a combination of Eurofighter and F35 would be complementary and that the Eurofighter would stay relevant and effective longer against developing technologies with some of the higher risk missions undertaken by the F35 and future uav projects until the Tempest aircraft has been delivered fingers crossed in twenty years .
I would suggest that a combination of Eurofighter and F35 would be complementary and that the Eurofighter would stay relevant and effective longer against developing technologies with some of the higher risk missions undertaken by the F35 and future uav projects until the Tempest aircraft has been delivered fingers crossed in twenty years .
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
"Supplying an enemy of a NATO partner" seems a perfectly justifiable reason for the UK refusing an export license to Egypt. Also the 24 for Spain, as they may be diverted off the production line to fill the Egyptian order (maybe the same thing could be said about the German order......). There would have to be legally binding agreements that they could not do that, before their orders were approved, surely?seaspear wrote:In regards to Egypt's war in Libya aren't they on the opposing side to Turkey a N.A.T.O Allie against a government recognized by Europe
There again, if the Germans could find their way to removing their objections to a Saudi sale..........
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Turkey is on a path I don’t think anyone really knows were too. It’s has been worryingly turning east of late.
Italy and Egypt are deeping economic cooperation on a number of front particularly on very significant gas finds in the med south of Cyprus and on the migrant issue in North Africa. Through into the mix a growing Russia involvement along North Africa and you have growing concern on NATO’s southern boarder.
Italy and Egypt are deeping economic cooperation on a number of front particularly on very significant gas finds in the med south of Cyprus and on the migrant issue in North Africa. Through into the mix a growing Russia involvement along North Africa and you have growing concern on NATO’s southern boarder.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Thanks - I’ve updateddmereifield wrote:I think you meant to write "would not rule out"?
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Typhoon is more like 200 million UK pounds fly away.dmereifield wrote:As for the first point, is Typhoon cheaper than an F35A? Aren't they coming in at something silly like $80million?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
There is?seaspear wrote:There is an argument against acquiring the f35 for the R.A.F if the Tempest is to be later bought in twenty years
Unless Tempest is carrier capable, I'd say such an argument & the guy making it, is full of it.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
It can't be that much, surely?Ron5 wrote:Typhoon is more like 200 million UK pounds fly away.dmereifield wrote:As for the first point, is Typhoon cheaper than an F35A? Aren't they coming in at something silly like $80million?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
It isn’t nor is the f35 $80m.dmereifield wrote:It can't be that much, surely?Ron5 wrote:Typhoon is more like 200 million UK pounds fly away.dmereifield wrote:As for the first point, is Typhoon cheaper than an F35A? Aren't they coming in at something silly like $80million?