Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
topman
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by topman »

This, in part, has been made possible by increasing the time between set servicings (primary, minor/major) for the a/c.
It started about 5+ years ago, to try and increase availability by increased times between the servicings. The plan is to see how far it can be increased in the future. So its still ongoing.
Its been brought in incrementally over several years and has worked in reducing costs. The cost savings are split with Bae, iirc the RAF's share can be spent back in the typhoon force.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

topman wrote:has worked in reducing costs. The cost savings are split with Bae, iirc the RAF's share can be spent back in the typhoon force.
It is also a huge factor in improving export chances as, believe it or not, other countries base their decisions on over-the-life full costings (of competing alternatives)
- we've talked that talk for yonks, but are only starting to walk the walk
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If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by dmereifield »

Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

dmereifield wrote:Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html
Well, they will probably buy Rafale instead. Or more F-15s...
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What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Lord Jim
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

HAs Germany stopped selling military equipment, including spares to Turkey after the things they have gotten up to in the last few years, not just as a result of operations in northern Syria.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by dmereifield »

abc123 wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html
Well, they will probably buy Rafale instead. Or more F-15s...
Great :roll:

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote:HAs Germany stopped selling military equipment, including spares to Turkey after the things they have gotten up to in the last few years, not just as a result of operations in northern Syria
Yes, its not a total ban, just on kit that can be used in Syria....which conveniently means they can carry on with Submarine contracts (which is their main military export to Turkey). Not sure on spares as the Turks do have that Leopard 2 fleet to maintain. One of the reasons the Leopard 2 fleet wasn't usually used against the Kurds in the past or on and over the border with Syria initially was because the Turks were worried about the German response. When they did mind it wasn't exactly a great run out...

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Can't help but see this as a very deliberate move to try and weaken the UK's aerospace industry, given Germany is moving away from working on planes with them in the future.

I find a lot of the "Germany/EU trying to hurt UK" stuff to be Brexiteer drivel, but in this case it does seem like a very "happy" coincidence for Germany in that regard.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

RetroSicotte wrote:Can't help but see this as a very deliberate move to try and weaken the UK's aerospace industry, given Germany is moving away from working on planes with them in the future.
Even though I don't like it, it is a fairly principled stance (ignoring the Turkish subs contract...seems morals have limits) and it will be hurting Germany as well given their significant production value in each Typhoon (and Italy and Spain for that matter who I'm sure are annoyed as well). The key issue for the UK is evidently the effect on the production line. If the UK government had some balls they'd order 48 Tranche 3's and get them underway with the understanding that when the inevitable German ban is rescinded we're on the way already....it's not going to be easy to keep the Saudi's on the hook though.

But the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest. France (and Israel's) reputation on arms exports is that they will supply you, come what may. And if they can't they'll find a novel way around (stolen gunboats from France?).

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Timmymagic wrote:Even though I don't like it, it is a fairly principled stance (ignoring the Turkish subs contract...seems morals have limits) and it will be hurting Germany as well given their significant production value in each Typhoon (and Italy and Spain for that matter who I'm sure are annoyed as well). The key issue for the UK is evidently the effect on the production line. If the UK government had some balls they'd order 48 Tranche 3's and get them underway with the understanding that when the inevitable German ban is rescinded we're on the way already....it's not going to be easy to keep the Saudi's on the hook though.

But the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest. France (and Israel's) reputation on arms exports is that they will supply you, come what may. And if they can't they'll find a novel way around (stolen gunboats from France?).
I completely understand the principle, and respect it. I've always taken a viewpoint that it's better to be close to such people. The more sway the UK holds over their imports, the better we can progress things. If they go Rafale, well they just regressed to using big bombs only (Rafale has no low-collateral weapon), and the US has at best SDB, and has shown little effort under Trump to really reduce things like the UK has done with embedded target advice. And if they go Russian...well...

I don't like what they do, but they're going to do it regardless of our stance. I'd rather we retain influence to help stop that, rather than just throw our hands up and leave it alone. And holding their jets as a provider is a step along with that, along with Typhoons lower collateral nature than its competitors.

Call it a hopeful pragmatic view, perhaps. Maybe I think on the little details too much in the world of "big stance" politics. But it's where I find my opinion lying when I see thousands of jobs back home on the line as well.

Also, that gunboats story is a hell of a read, looked it up last year. What absolute madmen.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

RetroSicotte wrote:I've always taken a viewpoint that it's better to be close to such people. The more sway the UK holds over their imports, the better we can progress things.
Agreed. You can exert more pressure when you have a relationship than if you don't (unless you're the US or China).
RetroSicotte wrote:If they go Rafale, well they just regressed to using big bombs only (Rafale has no low-collateral weapon), and the US has at best SDB,
MBDA are apparently working on the SmartGlider Light for the French. Looks like it's re-inventing the Spear wheel though...and will be less capable. If I was the UK MoD I'd be seeking guarantees that none of the UK's tech is finding its way into that...US has SDB1 and will shortly start deploying SDB2, possibly earlier than we deploy Spear. JAGM integration on fast jet doesn't seem to have progressed though.

I get the German stance, and its a nature of the German coalition governments, but I don't think they've really thought through the consequences at all...particularly in regard to component supply. We get rocket motors and warheads for a lot of munitions from Germany. It's high time that we start making them in the UK again (and we should never have stopped). The German's might be doing this with Typhoon today, but they might start doing it with Meteor or Brimstone in the future...

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.


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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

Timmymagic wrote:This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.

Italy and Egypt collaborate on a number of projects namely the Italian involvement in the one of the largest natural gas fields ever discovered in the Nile delta it essentially doubled Egypt’s gas reserves. It now has a need to police its Mediterranean coast and as it starts to sell lng the means to pay for it.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by dmereifield »

Good luck to them, plenty of work for UK plc

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Unless the Germans think they might actually use them in a conflict.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Phil Sayers »

Given Egypt's involvement on behalf of Haftar that is a serious point. Italy negotiating the sale while backing the other side is a prime example of money talks....

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Luckily on the other side is not a Eurofighter-consortium member, namely France. With two of Europe's Mediterranean powers unable to resolve their differences over Libya(err, the gas fields), the prospects for stability in North Africa more widely are not good

Now, back to the thread (how many?) where I was talking about the Club Med becoming a second-tier part of the EU
- don't forget about Brexit making us a "turkey"... or one up! A "Ukraine", in FTA terms that is
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Dahedd »

Timmymagic wrote:This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.


Greek chap over on Snafu saying this is a direct result of Turkey trying to take over a stretch of the Med having signed a defence pact with one of Libyas 2 rival govts. They've pissed off Italy, Greece, Egypt & Israel.

Dunno how accurate that is but it's interesting if true.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Dahedd wrote:They've pissed off Italy, Greece, Egypt & Israel.

Dunno how accurate that is but it's interesting if true.
It is true, and only Italy and Egypt are new in that list.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SKB »

I thought this was an RAF thread.... :yawn:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Have you checked :lol: 8-) if the Typhoon line (in this country :idea: ) is still running?
... where is this Zzzz emoticon for those folks who are constantly in (or in and out of) sleep :roll:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well, upstream there was talk about the damage the German stance might inflict on the UK Typhoon production line. But as per this quote
Timmymagic wrote:the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest
the real damage could be that they kill FCAS (longer term 'collateral damage) and where will their aero (te military side of it) industry go then
- brings to mind how Boeing shot themselves in the foot when egging on tough action on Bombardier
RetroSicotte wrote: Maybe I think on the little details too much in the world of "big stance" politics.
I think the problem is the other way: too many inexperienced people taking the big stances "on a gut feeling"
... once the details accumulate, they tend to amount to biting a big chunk of the same person's backside off (IF still in office 8-) )
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:the real damage could be that they kill FCAS (longer term 'collateral damage) and where will their aero (te military side of it) industry go then
IF you sell arms to countries you cannot expect them not to use them, and in war things get messy so you cannot say yes you can use them but only in these circumstances. With Germany it is more about their internal politics and keeping the ruling coalition together. They were fine equipping NATO to fight the USSR, but post Cold War they struggle with exports to the wider world.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

Multiple QRA launches yesterday

https://news.sky.com/story/raf-fighter- ... e-11952470

Six RAF jets were scrambled to intercept Russian aircraft after they approached British airspace on Saturday.

The Ministry of Defence said the planes were tracked heading for the northwest coast of Scotland.

A Voyager tanker - an air-to-air refuelling aircraft - was also deployed from RAF Brize Norton to support the mission.

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Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Tempest414 »

So reading AFM this month it is interesting that the typhoon force commander has his sites set on 8 squadrons also as a sided note it was interesting to see that the old 25 sqn HAS site at Leeming has been refurbished and is back in use for visiting units with 10 Swiss F-18 using the site not long back. maybe if he gets his way and he gets 8 sqn's with two being used for QRA/ Aggressor roles maybe 2 sqn's could move back to Leeming

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