Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
RetroSicotte
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Lord Jim wrote:The Swedish Air Force received its first RBS-15F missile in 1887
I beg your pardon? :p

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Pongoglo »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Lord Jim wrote: - the new Gripen, thanks to the modified development path I mentioned before the quote, despite being at the smaller end in size (amongst modern fighter a/c) will be able to carry 4, easily beating the 3 JSMs carried by Norway's F-35s... Norway had the unique requirement for range, to be able to defend the Norway-Spitzbergen (Svalbard) gap, and that eliminated Gripen simply due to its size (fuel/ range) despite unequalled anti-shipping fire
Norways F35A's can only carry three JSM? JSM can easily be carried on the external pylons giving four, even on the B. In the case of the 'A' I believe it can also carry two internally for a total of six.
F35 JSM 1.jpg
External....
F35 JSM Internal.jpg
Internal...
F35B JSM.jpg
F35B :-)
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abc123
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Lord Jim wrote: Now whether the Swedish Air Force decided in the 1990s that the threat from the Soviet Baltic Fleet had gone away and so they no linger the train with the weapon I do not know, but they still have them in storage and as I mentioned above are looking at introducing an improved version in a few years time.
Yeeep. Missile strike against ( Soviet ) maritime targets was one of the most important roles of Swedish Air Force during the Cold War.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Yes, II's and III's got mixed up; here is a summary from DID, along with the others I mentioned:

"The market for anti-ship missiles is a crowded one, and the distinction between anti-ship and precision land strike weapons is blurring fast. Aside from a bevy of Russian subsonic and supersonic offerings, naval buyers can choose Boeing’s GM-84 Harpoon, China’s YJ-82/C-802 Saccade, MBDA’s Exocet, Otomat, or Marte; IAI of Israel’s Gabriel/ANAM, Saab’s RBS15, and more. Despite an ongoing shift toward supersonic missiles, Kongsberg chose not to go that route. So, how do they expect to be competitive in a crowded market? The F-35 Lightning II may hold the key.

The F-35 is a fairly stealthy plane, so long as it is mostly unarmed. About five sixths of its armament capacity must be carried externally, effectively rendering it visible to radars. That has been one of the several good arguments as to why stealth development may have been a low bang-for-buck result. Australia announced external link that it was going in with Kongsberg to adapt the Joint Strike Missile to fit inside the F-35’s armament bay. We helpfully suggest that the new variant be named the JSM-III Sardine."
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Does anyone think the RAF with reintroduce Maritime Strike with anything other than possibly the P-8? Is there any chance that whatever weapon is chosen to replace the Harpoon could be integrated on to the Typhoon?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Regarding the RBS-15.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote:yone think the RAF with reintroduce Maritime Strike with anything other than possibly the P-8? Is there any chance that whatever weapon is chosen to replace the Harpoon could be integrated on to the Typhoon?
Harpoon was mentioned as one of the weapons the RAF would be getting with P-8, alongside Mk.54.

Zero chance of integration with Typhoon however, unless one of the Gulf countries pays for it, which Kuwait is doing with Marte-ER. Oman and Saudi seem disinterested, but it will be interesting if Qatar bites....I suspect that would be for Marte or JSM as they like new shiny things..
There was a few photo's of JSM's in front of Typhoon at airshows as a possible option for integration IF the customer was willing to pay. Realistically for the European users of Typhoon, Italy would go with Marte-ER to support Italian industry. Unless Spain, Germany and the UK decided to fund integration together (and it would be JSM) Typhoon will be waiting until FCASW c2030ish.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

Timmymagic wrote:Harpoon was mentioned as one of the weapons the RAF would be getting with P-8, alongside Mk.54.
I'm sorry, I know this is now off-topic and should be on the P-8 thread. However my understanding was the RAF P8s would be fully equipped for Harpoon, ('cause they're identical to US Navy aircraft) but the UK had not committed to a purchase.

Happy to be corrected.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Timmymagic wrote: Zero chance of integration with Typhoon however, unless one of the Gulf countries pays for it, which Kuwait is doing with Marte-ER. Oman and Saudi seem disinterested, but it will be interesting if Qatar bites....I suspect that would be for Marte or JSM as they like new shiny things..
Yeah, will not be Harpoon in those congested waters... who wants "the Iranian airliner shot down, again" scenario, just because at the time the Tomcat and that airliner taking off fro the same runway were merged into one and the same 'target' that then flew straight towards the ship
- Harpoon is not v good at filtering & selecting targets
Timmymagic wrote:Italy would go with Marte-ER to support Italian industry
and anybody wondered why they were the lead nation for the sale to Kuwait (bcz Marte was part of the rqrmnt spec)
RichardIC wrote:understanding was the RAF P8s would be fully equipped for Harpoon, ('cause they're identical to US Navy aircraft) but the UK had not committed to a purchase.
Yep, we prefer JIT for any weapons (just put the wiring in, so you can load them on, as soon as the "pizza-express delivery" USAF C-17 will have landed ;)

While I approve (for the economies made) of that kind of policy, we are basically setting ourselves up for another "Suez moment" as in:
- we know you guys went in (the briefings I don't read told me so)
- you better come out plenty quick, bcz Pr. Trump ("me") thought (in between twittering from the loo @ 7-ish in the morning) that what you've set yourselves up for is ' not a good deal, for America' ;)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Another related question, do typhoon (and soon F-35) Pilot train from Maritime Strike either in the air or in the simulators? It would be all well and good for a few crates to suddenly turn up when things go south (or north), but you have to have the skill sets to use them.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by topman »

A few crates?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Caribbean »

topman wrote:A few crates?
WW2 slang - crate = aircraft (usually applied to bombers etc)

Apologies if you already knew that :D
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

topman wrote:w crates?
I think he means crates of ASM's generously loaned from our ever accommodating friends in the states..

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

We could install them (the missiles, not the crates) on our tankers (again) :D ... range and endurance
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Sorry for the confusion, maybe I should have said Containers.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Old RN »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Yeah, will not be Harpoon in those congested waters... who wants "the Iranian airliner shot down, again" scenario, just because at the time the Tomcat and that airliner taking off fro the same runway were merged into one and the same 'target' that then flew straight towards the ship
- Harpoon is not v good at filtering & selecting targets
I worry when someone tries explain how a top flight airdefence ship, operating inside a foreign nation's territorial water, engaged one of their airliner's on a standard flight path and schedule. If any "enemy" or " rogue" country did that there would be no such understanding!

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by PapaGolf »

Does Russia count?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by topman »

Lord Jim wrote:Another related question, do typhoon (and soon F-35) Pilot train from Maritime Strike either in the air or in the simulators? It would be all well and good for a few crates to suddenly turn up when things go south (or north), but you have to have the skill sets to use them.
little use training to use a weapon that you have no plans to buy.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

topman wrote:ttle use training to use a weapon that you have no plans to buy.
Amidst all the loss of capability over the years thats one thing we forget, is there any martitime strike experience left in the RAF (or FAA for that matter)? It was build up over years with Buccaneer, then Tornado, but has been gone a very, very long time.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Timmymagic wrote: has been gone a very, very long time.
True, but sinking ships seems to be the tertiary capability of RN ships, too :( (would put it one further down, after ASW, AAW and projecting onto land... but my Latin runs short :cry: at that point).

A leading in remark to: if you train to strike mobile AD installations with Spear3 (JSASM was modified to be able to strike objects moving at 30 km/mls/ nm speed; can't now remember which metric applied) so what's the big deal in doing the same against ships? From the training point of view.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Sort of depends where the ships are. Out at sea you have no terrain to work with, but point taken regarding operations in coastal waters. Do we still train to get right down in the weeds so to speak or is that another skill set our pilots have lost? Staying under the radar horizon was always key to Anti-ship operations, especially now most Russian (and Chinese) vessels are basically mobile double digit SAM batteries, with the naval equivalent of the S-300 or S-400.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote:Do we still train to get right down in the weeds so to speak or is that another skill set our pilots have lost? Staying under the radar horizon was always key to Anti-ship operations, especially now most Russian (and Chinese) vessels are basically mobile double digit SAM batteries, with the naval equivalent of the S-300 or S-4
Exactly, do we train for pop-up attacks, do the radars have the modes necessary on Typhoon, let alone do we have the weaponry, tactics, planning and co-ordination. I suspect its all been lost.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

Timmymagic wrote:
topman wrote:ttle use training to use a weapon that you have no plans to buy.
Amidst all the loss of capability over the years thats one thing we forget, is there any martitime strike experience left in the RAF (or FAA for that matter)? It was build up over years with Buccaneer, then Tornado, but has been gone a very, very long time.
I don't think so, considering last Sea Eagle missiles were retired when? 20+ years ago? Because, as the topman said, why train to use a weapon that you have no plans to buy/operate?

But, rest assured, 6 Astutes will solve all and any possible surface targets, anywhere in the world, 367 days a year... :lolno:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

abc123 wrote:6 Astutes will solve all and any possible surface targets, anywhere in the world, 367 days a year
- where is the 7th? Is this the night shift already writing?
- position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies :lol: and navies (even Russia has one, or used to... reconstituted many times: after Tshusima, after WW2 (hiding in Kronstadt and what we now know as Abkhazia)
the tradition continues: there is no navy,except the part that is hiding under the waves ; which other country used to do this? After they had recognised that they were incapable of mounting a full challenge
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

IIRC, the RN currently has 6 SSNs.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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