Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
downsizer
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Re: Typhoon

Post by downsizer »

Pseudo wrote: That accounts for less than 1bn on upgrades over a decade, which doesn't seem a particularly large amount for a brand new aircraft with only initial operating capabilities. Obviously, the slow pace of upgrades was driven by the unwillingness of the partner nations to fund them, but I can't help but feel that the RAF were more willing to keep the air-to-ground capabilities as spartan as possible and rely on Tornado for as long as possible because a fully air-to-ground capable Typhoon would undermine the case for a full order of F-35's.

Now we've spent millions keeping Tornado in operation beyond its ideal lifespan and are no doubt spending more than would otherwise have been necessary for faster Brimstone and Storm Shadow integration because the F-35 is still years away from operational RAF service and Tornado can't keep going.

When I put it that way it seems a lot like the usual MoD story of defence politics trumping operational needs resulting in increased costs.
Wrong mate. The RAF wanted Typhoon into KAF to take over from the Harrier. As no money was forthcoming to bring it up to a usable TES they had to use Tornado once the decision to remove Harrier from KAF was taken.

Furthermore tornado could go on for a lot longer with minimal cost if they wanted it to, it has in no way gone "beyond it's ideal lifespan".

There is no link whatsover in typhoons lack of A2G and possible F35 orders. Unless you wear tinfoil.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by Gabriele »

I remember that... the sweet dreams of Typhoon in Afghanistan in 2011, followed by more dreams of Paveway IV being operational from 2012...

And earlier, bigger dreams still of a quick build up from Tranche 1 into an all singing, all dancing Tranche 2 on the magazines of years back, with those glossy Eurofighter propaganda images of Typhoons loaded with bombs everywhere and laser designation pod adapted to an AMRAAM fuselage recess not to eat away the useful 1000 litres of external fuel that you can put on the centre station...
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Re: Typhoon

Post by Pseudo »

downsizer wrote:
Pseudo wrote: That accounts for less than 1bn on upgrades over a decade, which doesn't seem a particularly large amount for a brand new aircraft with only initial operating capabilities. Obviously, the slow pace of upgrades was driven by the unwillingness of the partner nations to fund them, but I can't help but feel that the RAF were more willing to keep the air-to-ground capabilities as spartan as possible and rely on Tornado for as long as possible because a fully air-to-ground capable Typhoon would undermine the case for a full order of F-35's.

Now we've spent millions keeping Tornado in operation beyond its ideal lifespan and are no doubt spending more than would otherwise have been necessary for faster Brimstone and Storm Shadow integration because the F-35 is still years away from operational RAF service and Tornado can't keep going.

When I put it that way it seems a lot like the usual MoD story of defence politics trumping operational needs resulting in increased costs.
Wrong mate. The RAF wanted Typhoon into KAF to take over from the Harrier. As no money was forthcoming to bring it up to a usable TES they had to use Tornado once the decision to remove Harrier from KAF was taken.

Furthermore tornado could go on for a lot longer with minimal cost if they wanted it to, it has in no way gone "beyond it's ideal lifespan".

There is no link whatsover in typhoons lack of A2G and possible F35 orders.

Fair enough. I guess it's just down to the usual treasury wisdom of saving pennies now that costs pounds down the road.
Unless you wear tinfoil.
Well, I was about to post in the MPA thread my theory that in 2010 the RN moved Portsmouth five-hundred miles north on a map to prove that Type 23's could replace MRA4.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by downsizer »

Pseudo wrote: Well, I was about to post in the MPA thread my theory that in 2010 the RN moved Portsmouth five-hundred miles north on a map to prove that Type 23's could replace MRA4.
That brought me a chuckle.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Common Launcher Development for Typhoon
UK Ministry of Defence awards funding to investigate feasibility of a common weapon launcher for Typhoon

The UK Ministry of Defence has provided £1.7 million of funding to research a common weapon launcher for Typhoon that could be capable of carrying multiple weapons and weapon types on one aircraft attachment point.

The project will bring together expertise from ourselves as the weapons integration lead for Typhoon and the weapons manufacturers MBDA and Raytheon UK. If the research is successful this could be the latest development in a programme of activity to ensure that Typhoon continues to deliver world-leading capability for the armed forces.

Andy Eddleston, Typhoon Product Development and Future Capability Director said: "Developing a common weapon launcher solution could significantly enhance Typhoon's ability to deliver increased weapons persistence and effects. Each launcher could be capable of carrying up to three weapons, providing a great deal of flexibility and persistence for the operator."

The common weapon launcher, if the research is successful and the programme taken forward, could offer a flexible and cost effective solution for customers. The launcher could potentially carry weapons such as the Dual Mode Brimstone 2 Missile and the Paveway IV Precision Guided Bomb.
Read More: http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_ ... ajh94fby_4

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Re: Typhoon

Post by Gabriele »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Common Launcher Development for Typhoon
UK Ministry of Defence awards funding to investigate feasibility of a common weapon launcher for Typhoon

The UK Ministry of Defence has provided £1.7 million of funding to research a common weapon launcher for Typhoon that could be capable of carrying multiple weapons and weapon types on one aircraft attachment point.

The project will bring together expertise from ourselves as the weapons integration lead for Typhoon and the weapons manufacturers MBDA and Raytheon UK. If the research is successful this could be the latest development in a programme of activity to ensure that Typhoon continues to deliver world-leading capability for the armed forces.

Andy Eddleston, Typhoon Product Development and Future Capability Director said: "Developing a common weapon launcher solution could significantly enhance Typhoon's ability to deliver increased weapons persistence and effects. Each launcher could be capable of carrying up to three weapons, providing a great deal of flexibility and persistence for the operator."

The common weapon launcher, if the research is successful and the programme taken forward, could offer a flexible and cost effective solution for customers. The launcher could potentially carry weapons such as the Dual Mode Brimstone 2 Missile and the Paveway IV Precision Guided Bomb.
Read More: http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_ ... ajh94fby_4

Mock-ups of this launcher, which appears to be basically the Brimstone's rack modified for multi-weapon compatibility, were already on display alongside Typhoon in the past few air shows, fitted with SPEAR 3. It was also shown with 2 Paveway IVs, including on the mock up and in the images accompanying the latest enhancement contract signature.
Could be handy not just on Typhoon, but on F-35 as well later on, to ease the aerodynamic aspects of integration of weapons for external carriage. Using the exact same rack would ease things a fair bit.
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Re: Typhoon

Post by shark bait »

Some welcome news. If it can be common across platforms as suggested that would be excellent, reducing implementation costs which will hopefully mean typhoon isn't left behind in the future. Am I correct in stating that SPEAR is not yet destined for typhoon?

Good to see typhoon is finally getting the investments it needs but I cant help but think its all coming a little too late. I feel perhaps in another world where all the enhancements where in service a few years ago it would have seen much better export success.
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Re: Typhoon

Post by Gabriele »

SPEAR is to be flight tested on Typhoon, but ironically isn't planned as a Typhoon weapon yet, no. However, if SPEAR will survive, go ahead, and deliver its promise, i would think that will have to change, at some point.
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Re: Typhoon

Post by jonas »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:
I wonder what the reason is that Italy is taking the lead role in these negotiations. Not that I am complaining by any means, but it is normaly BAE that is at the forefront in the middle east when it comes to Typhoon. Although they have not had a great deal of success lately, i.e. Qatar and the UAE.
I just thought it was unusual to see Italy in this role. I expect Gabriele may be able to throw some light on this ?

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Re: Typhoon

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Possibly because our government has been pussy footing around any commitments to the military (aside from trident). Why would an outsider trust your equipment if you don't project confidence in your own equipment.
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Re: Typhoon

Post by Gabriele »

jonas wrote:
The Armchair Soldier wrote:
I wonder what the reason is that Italy is taking the lead role in these negotiations. Not that I am complaining by any means, but it is normaly BAE that is at the forefront in the middle east when it comes to Typhoon. Although they have not had a great deal of success lately, i.e. Qatar and the UAE.
I just thought it was unusual to see Italy in this role. I expect Gabriele may be able to throw some light on this ?
Eurofighter has long formed "areas of influence" for export (not sure based on what historical considerations...). Each Eurofighter nation has the lead to negotiate sales to certain countries. Italy has Kuwait as well as some of East Europe (proposals to Bulgaria and so along). EADS was at the lead of the failed campaign in India, etcetera.
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Re: Typhoon

Post by jonas »

Thanks for that Gabriele, I was not aware that Kuwait was Italy's domain. Let's hope they can pull this one off.


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Re: Typhoon

Post by RetroSicotte »

Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/ ... 4U20150605
Vietnam is in talks with European and U.S. contractors to buy fighter jets, maritime patrol planes and unarmed drones, sources said, as it looks to beef up its aerial defenses in the face of China's growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

The previously unreported aircraft discussions have involved Swedish defense contractor Saab (SAABb.ST), European consortium Eurofighter, the defense wing of Airbus Group (AIR.PA) and U.S. firms Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) and Boeing (BA.N), said industry sources with direct knowledge of the talks.

Defense contractors had made multiple visits to Vietnam in recent months although no deals were imminent, said the sources, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter. Some of the sources characterized the talks as ongoing.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by shark bait »

RetroSicotte wrote:Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China
there are 50 soon to be homeless typhoons......

more friendly's in that area is certainy a good thing too
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Re: Typhoon

Post by marktigger »

love the vider, the typhoon UK does have a cannon as it would have been to expensive to take off as all the flight software would have needed major modification.

I find it interesting the RAF are only now accepting swing role aircraft something most major airforces have had since the 70's.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by RetroSicotte »

marktigger wrote:I find it interesting the RAF are only now accepting swing role aircraft something most major airforces have had since the 70's.
Defimitely not true. Swingrole and Multirole are two very very different things. Swingrole has only really been brought in through the last few years.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by marktigger »

really phantom could do it!

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Re: Typhoon

Post by RetroSicotte »

A Phantom could not seamlessly carry an air superiority and ground attack mixed payload to carry out both fully as dedicated tasks and stilll have the ability to switch between them in a heartbeat at the switch of a button, maintain flight characteristics to condust A2A while carrying all that A2G and still have range and rapid selection of targets between radar scanning.

Thats the difference between Multi and Swing.

Multi can carry out carious roles and in a pinch do a bit of both.

Swing can do multiple roles in a single sortie to their full extent.

Enormous difference.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by WhitestElephant »

shark bait wrote:
RetroSicotte wrote:Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China
there are 50 soon to be homeless typhoons......

more friendly's in that area is certainy a good thing too
It is madness that 2 squadrons dedicated to QRA and air superiority are not formed with them, allowing the other squadrons to focus on delivering expeditionary air power
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Re: Typhoon

Post by RetroSicotte »

The eye of the storm: Captor-E interview

http://hushkit.net/2015/06/06/the-eye-o ... interview/

Full interview within, nothing enormous...except this little exerpt.
Will it offer superior detection range to RBE2 AESA and by what margin?

We believe that the large power and aperture available to Typhoon offers superior detection ranges; indeed, during Flight Evaluation Trials several evaluating nations have already commented that Captor-M invariably detected targets at significantly greater ranges than RBE-2. Captor-E should enhance detection even further and improve that significant tactical advantage. If you combine that power and aperture with the innovative repositioner providing a Wide Field of Regard of ~200 degrees you have an air combat-decisive advantage.

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Re: Typhoon

Post by shark bait »

WhitestElephant wrote:
It is madness that 2 squadrons dedicated to QRA and air superiority are not formed with them, allowing the other squadrons to focus on delivering expeditionary air power
I don't believe the can carry meteor though, which will be the primary weapon for QRA. As much as I hate it, I find it difficult to see a future for the tranche 1
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Re: Typhoon

Post by marktigger »

shark bait wrote:
WhitestElephant wrote:
It is madness that 2 squadrons dedicated to QRA and air superiority are not formed with them, allowing the other squadrons to focus on delivering expeditionary air power
I don't believe the can carry meteor though, which will be the primary weapon for QRA. As much as I hate it, I find it difficult to see a future for the tranche 1
SoTT's replacing all those Jaguars which were alledged to have been kept modified to latest standards

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Re: Typhoon

Post by shark bait »

marktigger wrote:
SoTT's replacing all those Jaguars which were alledged to have been kept modified to latest standards
Still maintaining jaguars?
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