Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

[LordJim]

Deep strike has really supplanted both of those roles, mainly out of the fact that western air forces have been able to go wherever they want whenever they want to carry out a mission for the past couple of decades. Training against a competent air defence network has been lacking, as has training against more historical targets. Stand off smart weapons enable almost any platform to reach deep into hostile territory, with the need to over fly a target diminishing as a result. Dumb bombs will probably become unusable by western air forces for political reasons. Only the US will be able to develop a truly strategic air platform for the future in western circles with others becoming reliant on multirole tactical platforms.

The Typhoon will be able to do its job as well as if not better than any other platform going forward. It has been a struggle to bring improvements on line but they are now doing so. With Tranche 3 and weapons like Meteor and SPEAR, its ability to work with other platforms such as the F-35 and AEW&C assets the RAF will be able to reach out and touch anyone it needs to do so in a very effective manner.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Deep strike has really supplanted both of those roles, mainly out of the fact that western air forces have been able to go wherever they want whenever they want to carry out a mission for the past couple of decades. Training against a competent air defence network has been lacking [...] Only the US will be able to develop a truly strategic air platform for the future in western circles with others becoming reliant on multirole tactical platforms.

First of all, it was very useful to bring in the two definitions in MRCA's post preceding the one I quote.

About 5 years back on TD (at least Topman and Pongoglo appearing here will remember that) I brought up: Why does the RAF keep talking about Deep Strike when they can only do Battlefield Interdiction?

The answer is, today, on the F-35 thread. And here is my slight disageement with LordJim: Even though stand-off will define the rules of the game, and the majority of the missions, a penetration capability is still a must. It is not the cherry on the cake (that is our "Carrier Strike"), but the icing on the cake.
- so loadasa Typhoons (all brought to the latest stds when budgets allow), a fewer number of F-35s and the capacity, at any time, to load 24 "B"s onto a carrier... which will be after 2023 (because by then we can do 23), while allowing for the fact that - should the other carrier be available - it would also need a few for doing CAP for protection

[MRCA]

A carrier in it'self has almost no relevance to what deep strike is, it's simply an alternative base of operations

If you want strategic range you need a bomber and only the US have them. Deep strike is more to do with the targets your attacking and there importance to an enemy.

We fly and practice against a fully worked up air defence system about twice a year its called red flag.

[RetroSicotte]

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/fal ... n-fighters

Expect some announcements today regarding Praetorian defence systems. Possibly a Britecloud confirmation? That'd put the Typhoon in a very select group.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Deep strike is more to do with the targets your attacking and there importance to an enemy.

Correct.

A carrier in it'self has almost no relevance to what deep strike is, it's simply an alternative base of operations

If you want strategic range you need a bomber and only the US have them

I don't mind a head start of a couple of thousand - or more - nm's (a kind way of saying that you are contradicting yourself).

As you use the form "we", I will do the same: We have decided, on RAF's advice, and the decision has been put into circulation by the relevant Minister
- hence we could continue the discussion on the thread that is more relevant to Deep Strike, ie. the one on JSF ... if that is OK, I don't mind

[MRCA]

Not really acc, say your target is inKursk, Moscow, Minsk, st Petersburg etc what several thousand nm advantage does a carrier give over a NATO airfield in Germany or the like.

The only way to guarantee of holding targets at risk at strategic range is with a bomber.

We can go to to the f35 thread if u like.

[ArmChairCivvy]

holding targets at risk at strategic range is with a bomber.

Yeah, let's move over as I had no intention of bombing the capital of Belorus.

against target sets which undermine the opponent’s ability, will and means to continue his aggression.

nor did I think that we would need to level Russian cities, but would still need to be able to have Deep Strike available as an instrument that is not limited to the use of stand-off weapons, but can penetrate integrated air defence systems when needed, and thereby open up the way for Battlefield Interdiction on a large scale by other a/c (e.g. the Typhoons)

[MRCA]

Well cities are were the command and control centres usual are located near too or where troop concentrations can be near too or weapon production factories or the like.

I take it your implying typhoon cannot penetrate an integrated air defence statement?

[downsizer]

F35 is our day 1 asset.

[MRCA]

Will be eventually.

[Defiance]

Typhoon will have its own issues mind, there's only so much overlap.

[Pongoglo]

Deep strike has really supplanted both of those roles, mainly out of the fact that western air forces have been able to go wherever they want whenever they want to carry out a mission for the past couple of decades. Training against a competent air defence network has been lacking [...] Only the US will be able to develop a truly strategic air platform for the future in western circles with others becoming reliant on multirole tactical platforms.

First of all, it was very useful to bring in the two definitions in MRCA's post preceding the one I quote.

About 5 years back on TD (at least Topman and Pongoglo appearing here will remember that) I brought up: Why does the RAF keep talking about Deep Strike when they can only do Battlefield Interdiction?

The answer is, today, on the F-35 thread. And here is my slight disageement with LordJim: Even though stand-off will define the rules of the game, and the majority of the missions, a penetration capability is still a must. It is not the cherry on the cake (that is our "Carrier Strike"), but the icing on the cake

I do indeed and from what I seem to remember from the 'Joint' component at Shrivenham the definition of Deep Strike is not so much about how far the target is away from the attacking air platforms launch location but how deep it is into the enemies air defence environment. From that perspective even though the RAF (or anybody else apart from good ol Uncle Sam) may not have, B1's, B2's or even it could be argued B52's but there is an argument that with Typhoon, Storm Shadow and Voyager AAR they are still very much in the Deep Strike game.

A couple of years back I shared a desk at Northwood with a somewhat frustrated Tornado back seater, then flying a desk. At the time we were attacking Libya (another outstandingly successful UK campaign :- ( ) and flying missions all the way from Marham using Tornado and Storm Shadow combined. Whatever ones view on the eventual outcome of the campaign these missions appear to have been a success but required an aweful lot of hook ups to a succession of tankers (VC 10's to get there and back, although not quiet on the 'Black Buck' scale.

Even then the Tornado's demise and the suitability of Typhoon as its replacement was very much the talk. Although obviously having a vested interest my colleague commented that to fly such long range missions with so many hooks would be very hard work in a single seater type, the chap in the back doing a lot of the work. He also stated that this was being worked on and that when Tornado was gone consideration was being given to the possibility of utilising the Typhoon T2 two seaters for specialist missions on a case by case basis, possibly by duel rolling 29 Squadron the OCU, their aircrew being experienced instructors and probably the best we have got?

[ArmChairCivvy]

the possibility of utilising the Typhoon T2 two seaters for specialist missions

They are fully capable and every time I've asked (public forums, you know) no one seems to have an asnwer as to the plan of retiring them (as opposed to the single seaters that got a new lease of life, by way of a very public announcement).

[Zealot]

France and Germany to develop Rafale & EF Typhoon replacement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-franc ... 9Y1FJ?il=0

TL;DR from Reddit,
PARIS - France and Germany unveiled plans on Thursday to develop a European fighter jet, burying past rivalries as part of a raft of measures to tighten defense and security cooperation.
The move to develop a new warplane accelerates steps that are expected to shape the future of the European fighter industry and its three existing programs - the Eurofighter, France's Rafale and Sweden's Gripen.
Some analysts and defense officials said the Franco-German push to create a new fighter could drive Britain further toward industrial and defense cooperation with the United States.

[ArmChairCivvy]

accelerates steps that are expected to shape the future of the European fighter industry and its three existing programs - the Eurofighter, France's Rafale and Sweden's Gripen.

Hey, there is a Road Map... where is the one I was asking about on the Tiffie thread? Even though this is positive news, I am not hooting while driving through the streets. We are invested in one platform where the end is not nigh, but a cul-de-sac is beckoning.

And another one which gives a lot of (missing) capabilities, but is moving our industry into the second sphere - subcontracting.

Luckily, in the unmanned domain we seem to be doing the right thing. Rather than a me-too "niche" that the Americans. Israelis and the Chinese(!) have cornered as of today.

[topman]

Although obviously having a vested interest my colleague commented that to fly such long range missions with so many hooks would be very hard work in a single seater type, the chap in the back doing a lot of the work.

The number of refuels it required is done by single seater FJ routinely on operations.

[topman]

Deep strike is (iirc) more about the target at the centre of an enemy's mass. It could be a political coup, financial collapse etc rather than a missile strike. They usually are at a distance but distance doesn't define them.

[ArmChairCivvy]

It could be a political coup, financial collapse etc rather than a missile strike.

Taking the lights out in Serbia (by spreading graphite over high-voltage energy distribution centers)... have we seen any other non-kinetic examples (yet)?

[The Armchair Soldier]

Successful completion of first live firing of Brimstone missile

The first live firing of MBDA’s Brimstone air-to-surface missile from a Eurofighter Typhoon has been successfully completed as part of ongoing development work to significantly upgrade the capability of the aircraft. The trial is part of work to integrate the Phase 3 Enhancement (P3E) package for Typhoon, which will also deliver further sensor and mission system upgrades.

The P3E package forms part of Project Centurion – the programme to ensure a smooth transition of Tornado GR4 capabilities on to Typhoon for the Royal Air Force.

Read More: http://www.baesystems.com/en/article/su ... ne-missile

[SKB]

[SKB]

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon announced that the RAF's Typhoons will be upgraded with Leonardo's Praetorian DASS (Defensive Aids Sub-System). Much of the work on the two-year program will be undertaken at Leonardo’s site in Luton in southern England and the BAE Systems factory in Warton, northwest England, where the integration work takes place.

The Praetorian system includes electronic support measures, missile warning, on-board electronic countermeasures and towed radar decoys.

The upgrade is part of a wider program of work being undertaken by industry and the Royal Air Force to improve Typhoon capabilities. These include software upgrades, development work on a new active electronically scanned array radar, and fitting the new Meteor air-to-air missile, Storm Shadow cruise missile and the Brimstone 2 ground attack missile.

Source: Andrew Chuter (DefenseNews.com) 12/7/2017

Leonardo's Praetorian DASS page: http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/praetorian-2
Wiki for Praetorian DASS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_DASS

[SKB]

A £9.5 million contract was also signed with defence technology company QinetiQ to provide Typhoon pilots with the “latest cockpit technology to prepare them for front line combat”, the Ministry of Defence said.

The technical update will enable crews based at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Coningsby to link to the Air Battlespace Training Centre at RAF Waddington to undertake 10 weeks of simulated battle training a year.

Speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford, Sir Michael said: “These contracts demonstrate our commitment to supporting the UK’s air power, through maintaining battle proven aircraft and training the next generation of fast jet pilots.

“This substantial investment will ensure our Air Force can continue to perform at its very best. Backed by our rising defence budget and £178 billion equipment plan, these contracts will sustain high skilled jobs in Britain and ensure that our Armed Forces have the best equipment and training available to keep the UK safe.”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defe ... -air-power

[MRCA]

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/train- ... ight-easy/

A nice overview of the facility at waddington

[The Armchair Soldier]

[ArmChairCivvy]

Tiffie news thru Flight Global:

-10 Tranche 3 Typhoons are now operational with RAF squadrons, with the service having previously taken delivery of additional examples which have been placed into temporary storage. In a further boost for the RAF's Typhoon force, defence minister Sir Michael Fallon has announced the signature of a £40 million contract which will upgrade the type's defensive aids subsystem ( BRIGHT CLOUD?) equipment over the next two years.

-Tranche 1 production-standard fighters. Previously threatened with retirement, at least 24 of the jets will now be retained in use until 2030. While a final decision has yet to be reached, operations with the Tranche 1 aircraft are likely to be dedicated to air-to-air duties

- as part of the UK's Operation Shader contribution to a US-led coalition. All five of the RAF's frontline Typhoon squadrons have been involved since operations began in December 2015

- Typhoon total availability enterprise, or Tytan, the new, 10-year arrangement between the RAF and industry partners BAE Systems and Leonardo is expected to reduce the Typhoon's per-hour operating cost by 30-40%. This should equate to a saving of at least £550 million...[ a pity that they don't say what it is now per hr; the euros 80.000 from Austria (for badly equipped planes) could then be put into perspective]