Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

[abc123]

What would be the rationale for doing this? Do we need to deploy or base another squadron somewhere?

The cynic would say it's a PR stunt. The PR people would say it's another front line deployable Sqn. Take your pick.

So, the USAF has 24 aircaft in squadron, French AdA has about 20, Spain has 18 ( IIRC ), Australia has 18, but the RAF is smartest of them all, so they can do the trick with 10?

Trying to be too smart rarely ends well.

[Gabriele]

Ask Hitler how well it did to double the number of Panzer divisions in the East by splitting them in half...

[abc123]

Ask Hitler how well it did to double the number of Panzer divisions in the East by splitting them in half...

Or Benny with doubling the number of divisions... ( no pun intended because youre Italian, just stating the historical example )

[marktigger]

if you went to your MP's surgery and asked him/her how many aircraft there were in an RAF sqn I suspect very few if any would get the right answer

[WhitestElephant]

So how large (or should I say small) is an RAF squadron?

[abc123]

So how large (or should I say small) is an RAF squadron?

I think ( in fighter squadrons ) that the official number if 12 aircrafts.

[Gabriele]

The RAF officer, deputy at the MOD for military capability, couldn't answer to that very same question months ago in front of the Committee, so... yeah. That was a gigantic facepalm moment. He didn't remember about the number of A400 either, which made me curse at the screen wondering why they even pay him. But whatever.

Or Benny with doubling the number of divisions... ( no pun intended because youre Italian, just stating the historical example )

Oh, yeah. Our fantastic binary brigades and divisions. That structure was always crap... yet the US Army initially went with a binary structure for its brigades, decades later. And the british army might do that (kind of) with the Strike Brigades now. Good ideas live long, but bad ideas also do, it unfortunately seems like.

[shotleylad]

Most fast jet Sqns do not have any aircraft allocated they are taken from a pool as needed which is under the control of the
Engineering Wing.

[Gabriele]

But somewhere there must be a requirement, a measure, a planning assumption for how many deployable jets a sqn is supposed to be able to generate and sustain.

[Caribbean]

I always thought that it was 18 aircraft to give 12 active

Apparently we can do that with 10 aircraft now

[abc123]

I always thought that it was 18 aircraft to give 12 active

Apparently we can do that with 10 aircraft now

Didn't you get the memo that the MoD's strategists managed to find a way to have squadrons of 10 aircrafts to give 24 active.

"Less is more and nothing is the greatest."

[dmereifield]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ports.html

Swiss looking to draw up a new procurement plan for fighters, possibility of limiting scope to the Eurofighter, Gripen and Rafale

[ArmChairCivvy]

Well, Typhoon is mentioned, but it did score (for the missions defined) well under Gripen/ Rafale.

A new game, though, as in this round all fighters will have to be replaced; the 22 Gripens were to take over from the 25 Tigers still operational
... I think the plan was to sell them to do aggressor duty in the US.

[donald_of_tokyo]

#Hello guys, this is my first post on RAF

Typhoon has developed AMK, an improvement on aerodynamics kits.

The AMK involves the installation of strakes (ridges along the fuselage) and leading-edge root extensions (LERX) where the roots of the delta wings meet the main body of the aircraft, right above its chin intake.

https://tacairnet.com/2015/07/15/improv ... odynamics/

It will be needed to win the Swiss deal ?

Actually, why not this AMK be applied to tranche.3 Typhoons? It looks quite reasonable modification.

[RetroSicotte]

Cost, as always. It's not an "essential" upgrade, as the Typhoon is already one of the most dominant A2A fighters in the world. So they are prioritising other things like AESA, A2G and avionics.

Would be nice, but it's far down on the priority scale. Same as why the EJ-200S2 engines are down there too, it's already got a damn good engine.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Cost, as always. It's not an "essential" upgrade, as the Typhoon is already one of the most dominant A2A fighters in the world. So they are prioritising other things like AESA, A2G and avionics.
Would be nice, but it's far down on the priority scale. Same as why the EJ-200S2 engines are down there too, it's already got a damn good engine.

Thanks. So you mean, Typhoon's original low score in the 1st run came from
- no AESA
- less capability for ground attack
and not A2A capability? But the AESA and A2G has been improved significantly, isn't it?
I though Swiss air force's 1st task is air defense. So maybe I'm wrong...

By the way, I believe Gripen-E will be the best choice. Looking at how they "love" F-5s, I have an impression that Swiss are happy with small, low-operation cost fighter, than heavy ones. Just an impression.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I though Swiss air force's 1st task is air defense. So maybe I'm wrong...

Also recce and A2G were scored in the previous round. It is all in the leaked AF report; but that was only the technical part and cost and industrial co-op were heavily weighted and that evaluation was not included.

[RetroSicotte]

Cost, as always. It's not an "essential" upgrade, as the Typhoon is already one of the most dominant A2A fighters in the world. So they are prioritising other things like AESA, A2G and avionics.
Would be nice, but it's far down on the priority scale. Same as why the EJ-200S2 engines are down there too, it's already got a damn good engine.

Thanks. So you mean, Typhoon's original low score in the 1st run came from
- no AESA
- less capability for ground attack
and not A2A capability? But the AESA and A2G has been improved significantly, isn't it?
I though Swiss air force's 1st task is air defense. So maybe I'm wrong...

By the way, I believe Gripen-E will be the best choice. Looking at how they "love" F-5s, I have an impression that Swiss are happy with small, low-operation cost fighter, than heavy ones. Just an impression.

The original comparison is so outdated it's obsolete. The Typhoon that took part in it was a trainer (ie - Two seat, not as aerodynamically optimised), and lacked many features such as IRST as it was both German (some of the less well equipped ones) and only a prototype test-airframe, one of the IPAs. IPA7 I believe.

As a result, it was a skewed comparison from the start, and one of the many reminders as to why Germany should never lead Typhoon sales campaigns.

[ArmChairCivvy]

one of the many reminders as to why Germany should never lead Typhoon sales campaigns.

Were they the lead for India, as well?

[cky7]

Were they the lead for India, as well?

Yeah. IIRC there was criticism of their handling of the opportunity over here on that one too.

[dmereifield]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... tract.html

5 Year Arrangement to Support the Eurofighter Typhoon Fleet

[The Armchair Soldier]

Images of RAF Typhoons with HMS St Albans seen here in the foreground, with the Russian Warships Petr Velikiy (centre) and the Admiral Kuznetsov (background).

Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, said:
“We are keeping a close eye on the Admiral Kuznetsov as it skulks back to Russia; a ship of shame whose mission has only extended the suffering of the Syrian people.
“We are man-marking these vessels every step of the way around the UK as part of our steadfast commitment to keep Britain safe.”

Typhoon aircraft are a critical part of UK defences, on call every day, including Quick Reaction Alert (QRA). Whilst the British public are familiar with our role escorting Russian long-range aviation, on this occasion we launched to monitor the Russian warships as they transit near to our sovereign waters in order to ensure that their activity is monitored and executed safely in accordance with international procedures.

[Pongoglo]

Thanks for the info guys. So is it still possible to sustain 8 deployable aircraft if they reduce the squadron size from 12 to 10? I suppose the answer depends on whether they maintain the same number of support crew for the smaller squadron or whether they will need to be extracted from the 7 squadrons to build up the 8th....are we likely to get any of this type of info in the public domain?
The question still remains - why? The pessimist in me automatically assumes this means a reduction in frontline airframes - firstly the decision to increase the number of Typhoon squadrons would indicate a slower build up of F35 squadrons (or fewer F35 squadrons planned) as well as marginal reduction in frontline Typhoon airframes (8 x 10 as opposed to 7 x 12)....

Is there any actual evidence they plan to do it that way, 8 x 10 as opposed to 7 x 12, or are we just letting our understandable cynicism run ahead - can anyone link a source ? By my maths now that the Tranche 1's are being retained we will still have a fleet of 160 or so (out of 240 planned ) so to field 8 Sqns of 12 there should be approx 20 airframes per Sqn from which to draw?

[downsizer]

Sqns don't own aircraft so it is a moot point. When they deploy Eng Ops picks the most suitable frames from the entire pool of aircraft.

[ArmChairCivvy]

There seems to be a growing appreciation of OpFor's EW capabilities (one of the main themes in the latest Red Flag).

In a situation where both sides "blind" some of the sensors we might still come to appreciate the raw kinematics of Typhoons... so no hurry with getting rid of them.
- the newest quantity buy, of Mig-35s, has directly evolved from the venerable 29
- the thing is, there will be quite a few of them (but not that many PAK-FAs)