Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
It's a serious force for the 2010 to 2020 era. Not sure how much future utility it had beyond that without F35 in the fleet mix.
- Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
This will depend on Russia and how it ramps up its 5th gen capability if we take it as a NATO whole Europe will have 250 + fifth gen jets plus its forth gen jets do France and Germany need to buy US built fifth gen now who other than Russia is going operate fifth gen in there area of operations
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Or at least that’s what the Lockheed Martin PR department would have you believe
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-cont ... htning.jpg
Still intercepting the same a/c
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-cont ... htning.jpg
Still intercepting the same a/c
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Realistically the amount of top end combat aircraft that the European members of NATO can deploy is massively superior to the Russian Air Force both in numbers and qualitatively.Tempest414 wrote:This will depend on Russia and how it ramps up its 5th gen capability if we take it as a NATO whole Europe will have 250 + fifth gen jets plus its forth gen jets do France and Germany need to buy US built fifth gen now who other than Russia is going operate fifth gen in there area of operations
The Russians have c240 SU-30/35 in total, to cover the entire country. They're the only high end air superiority aircraft the Russians possess. The rest of the Russian fighter fleet is either MiG-31 or a small number of ancient SU-27 that exist pretty much on paper for all the combat utility they have. Just the Typhoon fleet alone for NATO massively outclasses the RuAF. Add in the plethora of F-16, Rafale, EF-18, Gripen etc. and we really have nothing to worry about. The only real concern for NATO is Russian Long Range aviation lobbing cruise missiles from outside fighter interception range.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Norway alone will have twice as many as Russia (operational)Tempest414 wrote: will depend on Russia and how it ramps up its 5th gen capability if we take it as a NATO whole Europe will have 250 + fifth gen jets
And what will happen when the 6th gen comes around... would you like to be stuck with one, and one only, alternative? Ohh, the 'cheap' Chinese copiesTempest414 wrote:France and Germany need to buy US built fifth gen now who other than Russia is going operate fifth gen in there area of operations
even the Mig£1s are being repurposed... which sort of relates to the quote below; we might laff-off the Bear a/c as relics; but what we need to think of is the capability (= a/c+missile, and their combined ranges) that underpins, or not, the various threats in "Our Risk Register"... as I take it that we manage this according to the Science?Timmymagic wrote:The Russians have c240 SU-30/35 in total, to cover the entire country. They're the only high end air superiority aircraft the Russians possess. The rest of the Russian fighter fleet is either MiG-31
Timmymagic wrote: The only real concern for NATO is Russian Long Range aviation lobbing cruise missiles from outside fighter interception range.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
I make it around 280 European F35s on current orders not including the UK (or Finland), as you say that should give the Bear good for thought. Frankly I think the main military threat to Europe is Erdogan’s Turkey.Tempest414 wrote:This will depend on Russia and how it ramps up its 5th gen capability if we take it as a NATO whole Europe will have 250 + fifth gen jets plus its forth gen jets do France and Germany need to buy US built fifth gen now who other than Russia is going operate fifth gen in there area of operations
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Just for context!
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ore-f-35s/
The fifth-generation aircraft are meant to replace the country's fleet of 60 or so F-16s, with yearly deliveries scheduled between six to eight planes until the target number of 37 is reached.
That inventory will allow the Netherlands to field four F-35s for operations, considering that a certain number is always set aside for training, undergoing maintenance or otherwise unavailable to deploy, said Zandee.
“There is a lot of pressure from NATO that 37 are not enough,” he said, adding that there has been talk in Dutch defense circles to up the number to 52.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ore-f-35s/
The fifth-generation aircraft are meant to replace the country's fleet of 60 or so F-16s, with yearly deliveries scheduled between six to eight planes until the target number of 37 is reached.
That inventory will allow the Netherlands to field four F-35s for operations, considering that a certain number is always set aside for training, undergoing maintenance or otherwise unavailable to deploy, said Zandee.
“There is a lot of pressure from NATO that 37 are not enough,” he said, adding that there has been talk in Dutch defense circles to up the number to 52.
- Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Got to love a Lightning great picSW1 wrote:Or at least that’s what the Lockheed Martin PR department would have you believe
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-cont ... htning.jpg
Still intercepting the same a/c
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Err, how many was it again that will need to eb available nuclear (double-key) duties? As for otherwise not available to deploySW1 wrote: or otherwise unavailable to deploy, said Zandee.
“There is a lot of pressure from NATO that 37 are not enough,” he said, adding that there has been talk in Dutch defense circles to up the number to 52.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... 1-billion/SW1 wrote:The fifth-generation aircraft are meant to replace the country's fleet of 60 or so F-16s, with yearly deliveries scheduled between six to eight planes until the target number of 37 is reached.
They were moving towards 46 in total, with (allegedly) 6 more in the offing, for 52. Suspect that the Netherlands will eventually hit c60 F-35A.
And it goes without saying that that is a quantum leap in capability over the 60 F-16AM they have.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
The point I’m getting at is no matter how wonderful some people think something is if in the case of the Dutch they end up only able to deploy 4 a/c or maybe 6 a/c if they spend more it is getting to the point where it’s nearly irrelevant what it can do given the outlay required to get there .
A new build block 70 f16 would of been sufficient for there requirements and then some and that goes for a whole lot of others too.
A new build block 70 f16 would of been sufficient for there requirements and then some and that goes for a whole lot of others too.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
There was an article in one of the Aviation mag about a year ago going on about how USAF were burning up F-22 hours and money doing QRA and chasing Russian Bears and that the F-15 was a much better option from a cost point of view and was a over match for the task
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Thats part of the reason why the RAF are retaining the Tranche 1 Typhoons for QRA.Tempest414 wrote:There was an article in one of the Aviation mag about a year ago going on about how USAF were burning up F-22 hours and money doing QRA and chasing Russian Bears and that the F-15 was a much better option from a cost point of view and was a over match for the task
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
And the other part was that "Red Air" went down the pan
... like railways, and [insert all your dislikes here; natural monopolies that have been privatised ]
... like railways, and [insert all your dislikes here; natural monopolies that have been privatised ]
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Nah likely there national air defence tasking.ArmChairCivvy wrote:Err, how many was it again that will need to eb available nuclear (double-key) duties? As for otherwise not available to deploySW1 wrote: or otherwise unavailable to deploy, said Zandee.
“There is a lot of pressure from NATO that 37 are not enough,” he said, adding that there has been talk in Dutch defense circles to up the number to 52.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
(Elwyn R) 27th April 2020
This was (at Southport) back in 2016, and I will be re-visiting some previous Airshow's through the year due to the Covid-19 and the lack of Airshows in 2020!!
Flight Lieutenant Mark Long, the Typhoon's display pilot, had warned the lack of wind would make the aircraft "crazy loud" - and as the sound built into a thunderous roar you could see people start to cover their ears.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
My god the pilot's G-Suit must have been working overtime. Very impressive display! Reminds me when I first saw the F-16 display in the early 1980s or the Mig-29 and SU-27 display in the latter half of the 1990s.
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Love seeing the tiffy at airshows. Whilst f22s and the Russian TVC migs are impressive they appear so slow they always made question the utility of those types of manoeuvres in real combat, especially when typhoons and others have high off boresight helmet mounted sights. With this in mind the only advantage provided by losing so much energy pulling the impressive looking post stall TVC moves would seem to be negated to my limited knowledge? So as the USAF F-15 pilots said following their infamous exercise with india’s TVC Sukhoi’s, I doubt a lot of those moves would be of limited use in a real fight, especially when it would be a minimum of 2 vs 2.
Seeing the sheer speed and aggression in a typhoon display is an awesome sight to behold and whilst my attempts to measure turning speed with a stopwatch are probably not accurate enough to be reliable, nothing else I’ve seen other than rafales seem to be even close to as impressive. Rafale’s appear equal or at times even a very tiny bit better on horizontal turns,but the typhoon is quicker in vertical turns. When you consider the typhoon was actually designed to perform best at high altitude - far above what would be seen at any air show - whilst the beautifully agrressive and capable rafale was optimised to be at her best at lower to medium level, I often wonder how incredible it would be to see a typhoon doing its thing at 50k plus where it’s designed to be at its best. I’m sure airshows are far from a reliable gage for real life DACT and obviously all this means little when the raptor’s stealth comes into play. However, I still find myself thinking even raptor pilots would have a hard time or even be at a disadvantage in certain areas whilst going against tiffy’s at the likes of red flag after watching these displays. And the typhoon and rafale are still for me the highlights of every display I’ve been to, nothing else matches their sheer speed, aggression and agility at speed. I appreciate this is a matter of taste though, as whilst I think nothing comes close to typhoon and rafale for agression, speed and sheer handling during their displays, the raptor offers a different type of spectacular that is equally impressive, just different. I also remember seeing the f35 for the first time at an airshows and came away laughing at all those “can’t out climb, can’t out turn, can’t out run etc” comments circling online. The body lift on it clearly makes it a very nimble and ImpressiveIrcraft yo watch.
Oh and just to clarify I realise air show displays are no indicator of a type’s combat effectiveness, especially not when judged by a passionate but uninformed fan like myself! Still gutted my local RIAT looks certain to be not happening this year. Guess ill just have to hope we get a miracle and things improve in time for farnborough to take place and I’ll go there instead, though I think that’s a no hoper too
Seeing the sheer speed and aggression in a typhoon display is an awesome sight to behold and whilst my attempts to measure turning speed with a stopwatch are probably not accurate enough to be reliable, nothing else I’ve seen other than rafales seem to be even close to as impressive. Rafale’s appear equal or at times even a very tiny bit better on horizontal turns,but the typhoon is quicker in vertical turns. When you consider the typhoon was actually designed to perform best at high altitude - far above what would be seen at any air show - whilst the beautifully agrressive and capable rafale was optimised to be at her best at lower to medium level, I often wonder how incredible it would be to see a typhoon doing its thing at 50k plus where it’s designed to be at its best. I’m sure airshows are far from a reliable gage for real life DACT and obviously all this means little when the raptor’s stealth comes into play. However, I still find myself thinking even raptor pilots would have a hard time or even be at a disadvantage in certain areas whilst going against tiffy’s at the likes of red flag after watching these displays. And the typhoon and rafale are still for me the highlights of every display I’ve been to, nothing else matches their sheer speed, aggression and agility at speed. I appreciate this is a matter of taste though, as whilst I think nothing comes close to typhoon and rafale for agression, speed and sheer handling during their displays, the raptor offers a different type of spectacular that is equally impressive, just different. I also remember seeing the f35 for the first time at an airshows and came away laughing at all those “can’t out climb, can’t out turn, can’t out run etc” comments circling online. The body lift on it clearly makes it a very nimble and ImpressiveIrcraft yo watch.
Oh and just to clarify I realise air show displays are no indicator of a type’s combat effectiveness, especially not when judged by a passionate but uninformed fan like myself! Still gutted my local RIAT looks certain to be not happening this year. Guess ill just have to hope we get a miracle and things improve in time for farnborough to take place and I’ll go there instead, though I think that’s a no hoper too
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Yeah had pretty much assumed it would be, was just wishing it could be otherwise. With it being bi-annual what will happen next year as before current crisis it wouldn’t have been held in 2021?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
It will be Paris in June, farnborough will return in 2022.cky7 wrote:Yeah had pretty much assumed it would be, was just wishing it could be otherwise. With it being bi-annual what will happen next year as before current crisis it wouldn’t have been held in 2021?
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
Thanks, I’ll bet both Boeing and Airbus will be praying for successful results at Paris. Boeing had already been having a tough time before the devastation wrought on the industry by the corona crisis and now it seems Airbus have been massively damaged by it too. I can’t blame either to be honest, I reckon the industry will be feeling negative effects and massively downwardly revised predictions for quite a few years to come after this. I’ve even heard whispers only one of them will still be around by the end of the decade. Personally doubt it will be that bad but only cos respective governments won’t let them go bust and I could easily imagine either being bailed out...
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
As I’ve mentioned crisis always accelerates trends and in this point to point between smaller less crowded airports over hub and spoke will be the trend that accelerates along with fleet rationalisation. Boeing saw this first and built 787 Dreamliner an excellent a/c, Airbus followed with a350, these two jet will dominate long haul travel for years to come and expect many variants all others in the widebody market will start to fall away or never return.cky7 wrote:Thanks, I’ll bet both Boeing and Airbus will be praying for successful results at Paris. Boeing had already been having a tough time before the devastation wrought on the industry by the corona crisis and now it seems Airbus have been massively damaged by it too. I can’t blame either to be honest, I reckon the industry will be feeling negative effects and massively downwardly revised predictions for quite a few years to come after this. I’ve even heard whispers only one of them will still be around by the end of the decade. Personally doubt it will be that bad but only cos respective governments won’t let them go bust and I could easily imagine either being bailed out...
Domestic will come back first, and in that space only airbus has a brand spanker which ergonomically, environmentally and economically is head and shoulders above anything else in the segment in the now a220 I expect future variants. It will be interesting to see where a320neo and xlr will go in the upper end of single aisle and lower end of the traditional widebody markets. For Boeing there in trouble in this area it’s all on 737max that’s in need of replacement more than ever and has massive reputation damage, they never wanted to do the max because they knew the engines would need to go into an unnatural position and there paying the price for being half arsed about it. Boeing will still be here but it needs to light a fire under a new small jet as soon as it gets max back in the air.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
that's called more orders for the military wing of eachcky7 wrote:only cos respective governments won’t let them go bust and I could easily imagine either being bailed out...
- there Boeing is in a more difficult position as their is no "volume" successor for their successful twin-tails
- Airbus will also need some gap filling for the 2025-2035 decade
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)
You clearly don't comprehend the breadth and depth of Boeing's military offerings. Airbus meh.ArmChairCivvy wrote:that's called more orders for the military wing of eachcky7 wrote:only cos respective governments won’t let them go bust and I could easily imagine either being bailed out...
- there Boeing is in a more difficult position as their is no "volume" successor for their successful twin-tails
- Airbus will also need some gap filling for the 2025-2035 decade