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Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Ron5
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Ron5 » 18 Jan 2020, 17:46

Did he ask what their plans needed to be cancelled to afford the 8 squadrons?

Bet it was stuff they didn't own.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby topman » 18 Jan 2020, 19:25

It's been an idea for a few years now. It's nothing new. I don't think it'll have an impact either way on F35, it's unlikely they'll be more typhoons purchased. This is more of a case doing more with what they've got rather than some large increase.

Manpower and support will be the big issue rather than airframes I think to get this plan up and running.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 19 Jan 2020, 15:38

Ok so we will end up with eight Squadrons of Typhoons but with each with only eight to ten aircraft available at any one time. Eight frontline squadrons will look good in the papers but will it actually benefit the RAF on operations. It may mean the RAF has a bigger pool of Pilots and Ground Crew with would be a good thing, but additional aircraft being available I doubt it

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby topman » 19 Jan 2020, 19:50

This, in part, has been made possible by increasing the time between set servicings (primary, minor/major) for the a/c.
It started about 5+ years ago, to try and increase availability by increased times between the servicings. The plan is to see how far it can be increased in the future. So its still ongoing.
Its been brought in incrementally over several years and has worked in reducing costs. The cost savings are split with Bae, iirc the RAF's share can be spent back in the typhoon force.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 20 Jan 2020, 04:04

topman wrote:has worked in reducing costs. The cost savings are split with Bae, iirc the RAF's share can be spent back in the typhoon force.


It is also a huge factor in improving export chances as, believe it or not, other countries base their decisions on over-the-life full costings (of competing alternatives)
- we've talked that talk for yonks, but are only starting to walk the walk

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby dmereifield » 26 Jan 2020, 08:37

Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby abc123 » 26 Jan 2020, 10:09

dmereifield wrote:Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html


Well, they will probably buy Rafale instead. Or more F-15s...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 26 Jan 2020, 19:47

HAs Germany stopped selling military equipment, including spares to Turkey after the things they have gotten up to in the last few years, not just as a result of operations in northern Syria.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby dmereifield » 26 Jan 2020, 21:22

abc123 wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Germany holding up the often touted rumour of a second KSA purchase of 48 Typhoons

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... urder.html


Well, they will probably buy Rafale instead. Or more F-15s...


Great :roll:

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 27 Jan 2020, 09:09

Lord Jim wrote:HAs Germany stopped selling military equipment, including spares to Turkey after the things they have gotten up to in the last few years, not just as a result of operations in northern Syria


Yes, its not a total ban, just on kit that can be used in Syria....which conveniently means they can carry on with Submarine contracts (which is their main military export to Turkey). Not sure on spares as the Turks do have that Leopard 2 fleet to maintain. One of the reasons the Leopard 2 fleet wasn't usually used against the Kurds in the past or on and over the border with Syria initially was because the Turks were worried about the German response. When they did mind it wasn't exactly a great run out...

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby RetroSicotte » 27 Jan 2020, 15:37

Can't help but see this as a very deliberate move to try and weaken the UK's aerospace industry, given Germany is moving away from working on planes with them in the future.

I find a lot of the "Germany/EU trying to hurt UK" stuff to be Brexiteer drivel, but in this case it does seem like a very "happy" coincidence for Germany in that regard.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 27 Jan 2020, 15:58

RetroSicotte wrote:Can't help but see this as a very deliberate move to try and weaken the UK's aerospace industry, given Germany is moving away from working on planes with them in the future.


Even though I don't like it, it is a fairly principled stance (ignoring the Turkish subs contract...seems morals have limits) and it will be hurting Germany as well given their significant production value in each Typhoon (and Italy and Spain for that matter who I'm sure are annoyed as well). The key issue for the UK is evidently the effect on the production line. If the UK government had some balls they'd order 48 Tranche 3's and get them underway with the understanding that when the inevitable German ban is rescinded we're on the way already....it's not going to be easy to keep the Saudi's on the hook though.

But the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest. France (and Israel's) reputation on arms exports is that they will supply you, come what may. And if they can't they'll find a novel way around (stolen gunboats from France?).

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby RetroSicotte » 27 Jan 2020, 16:18

Timmymagic wrote:Even though I don't like it, it is a fairly principled stance (ignoring the Turkish subs contract...seems morals have limits) and it will be hurting Germany as well given their significant production value in each Typhoon (and Italy and Spain for that matter who I'm sure are annoyed as well). The key issue for the UK is evidently the effect on the production line. If the UK government had some balls they'd order 48 Tranche 3's and get them underway with the understanding that when the inevitable German ban is rescinded we're on the way already....it's not going to be easy to keep the Saudi's on the hook though.

But the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest. France (and Israel's) reputation on arms exports is that they will supply you, come what may. And if they can't they'll find a novel way around (stolen gunboats from France?).

I completely understand the principle, and respect it. I've always taken a viewpoint that it's better to be close to such people. The more sway the UK holds over their imports, the better we can progress things. If they go Rafale, well they just regressed to using big bombs only (Rafale has no low-collateral weapon), and the US has at best SDB, and has shown little effort under Trump to really reduce things like the UK has done with embedded target advice. And if they go Russian...well...

I don't like what they do, but they're going to do it regardless of our stance. I'd rather we retain influence to help stop that, rather than just throw our hands up and leave it alone. And holding their jets as a provider is a step along with that, along with Typhoons lower collateral nature than its competitors.

Call it a hopeful pragmatic view, perhaps. Maybe I think on the little details too much in the world of "big stance" politics. But it's where I find my opinion lying when I see thousands of jobs back home on the line as well.

Also, that gunboats story is a hell of a read, looked it up last year. What absolute madmen.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 27 Jan 2020, 18:47

RetroSicotte wrote:I've always taken a viewpoint that it's better to be close to such people. The more sway the UK holds over their imports, the better we can progress things.


Agreed. You can exert more pressure when you have a relationship than if you don't (unless you're the US or China).

RetroSicotte wrote:If they go Rafale, well they just regressed to using big bombs only (Rafale has no low-collateral weapon), and the US has at best SDB,


MBDA are apparently working on the SmartGlider Light for the French. Looks like it's re-inventing the Spear wheel though...and will be less capable. If I was the UK MoD I'd be seeking guarantees that none of the UK's tech is finding its way into that...US has SDB1 and will shortly start deploying SDB2, possibly earlier than we deploy Spear. JAGM integration on fast jet doesn't seem to have progressed though.

I get the German stance, and its a nature of the German coalition governments, but I don't think they've really thought through the consequences at all...particularly in regard to component supply. We get rocket motors and warheads for a lot of munitions from Germany. It's high time that we start making them in the UK again (and we should never have stopped). The German's might be doing this with Typhoon today, but they might start doing it with Meteor or Brimstone in the future...

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Timmymagic » 09 Feb 2020, 12:19

This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.


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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SW1 » 09 Feb 2020, 13:19

Timmymagic wrote:This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.



Italy and Egypt collaborate on a number of projects namely the Italian involvement in the one of the largest natural gas fields ever discovered in the Nile delta it essentially doubled Egypt’s gas reserves. It now has a need to police its Mediterranean coast and as it starts to sell lng the means to pay for it.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby dmereifield » 10 Feb 2020, 01:28

Good luck to them, plenty of work for UK plc

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Lord Jim » 10 Feb 2020, 02:28

Unless the Germans think they might actually use them in a conflict.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Phil Sayers » 10 Feb 2020, 13:53

Given Egypt's involvement on behalf of Haftar that is a serious point. Italy negotiating the sale while backing the other side is a prime example of money talks....

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 10 Feb 2020, 14:20

Luckily on the other side is not a Eurofighter-consortium member, namely France. With two of Europe's Mediterranean powers unable to resolve their differences over Libya(err, the gas fields), the prospects for stability in North Africa more widely are not good

Now, back to the thread (how many?) where I was talking about the Club Med becoming a second-tier part of the EU
- don't forget about Brexit making us a "turkey"... or one up! A "Ukraine", in FTA terms that is

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby Dahedd » 10 Feb 2020, 22:37

Timmymagic wrote:This is a little weird....looks like Egypt may be about to buy 24 Typhoon....Italy is the sales lead in this case.




Greek chap over on Snafu saying this is a direct result of Turkey trying to take over a stretch of the Med having signed a defence pact with one of Libyas 2 rival govts. They've pissed off Italy, Greece, Egypt & Israel.

Dunno how accurate that is but it's interesting if true.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 11 Feb 2020, 03:31

Dahedd wrote:They've pissed off Italy, Greece, Egypt & Israel.

Dunno how accurate that is but it's interesting if true.


It is true, and only Italy and Egypt are new in that list.

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SKB
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby SKB » 11 Feb 2020, 09:15

I thought this was an RAF thread.... :yawn:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 11 Feb 2020, 14:48

Have you checked :lol: 8-) if the Typhoon line (in this country :idea: ) is still running?
... where is this Zzzz emoticon for those folks who are constantly in (or in and out of) sleep :roll:

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 Feb 2020, 10:14

Well, upstream there was talk about the damage the German stance might inflict on the UK Typhoon production line. But as per this quote
Timmymagic wrote:the French must be looking on in horror as they're tied to the Germans in FCAS....and export customers will be looking on with interest
the real damage could be that they kill FCAS (longer term 'collateral damage) and where will their aero (te military side of it) industry go then
- brings to mind how Boeing shot themselves in the foot when egging on tough action on Bombardier
RetroSicotte wrote: Maybe I think on the little details too much in the world of "big stance" politics.
I think the problem is the other way: too many inexperienced people taking the big stances "on a gut feeling"
... once the details accumulate, they tend to amount to biting a big chunk of the same person's backside off (IF still in office 8-) )


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