General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper/Protector (UCAV) (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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Gabriele
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by Gabriele »

Really no surprise there. Cameron spelled the name Protector on 3 october 2015, and on 4 october 2015, after thinking a bit about the options on the table, i was already writing about Certifiable Predator B being the most likely solution.
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shark bait
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

I was wondering about how scavenger was progressing on my way into work today, turns out I didn't have to wait long to find out.

I think something that is noteworthy is this is the second big defence purchase in recent months without an open competition. In both cases it in entirely reasonable as there is only really one option, but nice to see HMG taking things seriously and not using delay tactics of a length open competition.

Price is also interesting, assuming we're still buying 20, £400 million total gives a cost of £20 million a unit (I understand that's not quite how it works)

Next question is how long will we have to wait for a contract to integrate British weapons? Hopefully a bit speedier than the terrible history of British complex weapon integration, Brimsone, LLM, PW4 need to be on there.

Also does this make us the launch customer of the “Certifiable Predator B”?
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

I think a standard predator cost around $10 million dollars ,the rest will be taken up with spares, base stations, test equipment etc. The contract appears to be good value if it is for 20 airframes.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

That is the US fly away cost, which is very different to the actual unit cost for an international partner.

In no way is the reaper as cheap as £7 million.
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

The French ordered 16 standard B predators and the total FMS price was 1.6 bn dollars including spares ground control stations. I have a feeling that the price quoted in this announcement is not for 20 new airframes.

In my previous post I meant to say 10 million pounds not dollars. The price for the new extended range version with its additional systems will obviously be more than that.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Do bear in mind that France's order was for a nation that had essentially zero experience or infrastructure in operating these types of aircraft, and had to fund as such.

The UK's one is building on establlished and likely cross competible infrastructure.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

More on the Reaper order from Flight Global still unclear how many is being bought,

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... em-424667/

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I am not even trying to keep up with this, but the thing is: what we have have, as for endurance can be field upgraded.

Push them all (the 20) out there, use them and see if (and what) any extra capability is needed.

I am rather worried that in the second half of this decade (err, where are we now, or at least headed there) the capabilities are/ will be at the rock bottom.
- am talking more generally, not just about buying some UAVs
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

It's not just field upgradable endurance mods, General Atomics have tweaked almost every part of the aircraft, it's a major evolution of the design
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Janes had a very interesting article about the UK RAF Reapers today, but here's the curious point. It got pulled.

It was revealing a new part of the Reaper fitted (unusually) to only RAF Reapers and had never been seen before on US or UK UAVs. Nothing massive? Well, it was apparently a big deal and secretive enough that it was video edited out or blurred significantly in recent news reports showing footage of the Reapers themselves on the ground. A few frames were missed however, and analysts at Janes got a look at them, posting theories on what kind of advanced technology it might be, as it certainly wasn't just a flight dynamics upgrade. This was something else entirely.

Half an hour later, the article got pulled and has not reappeared since.

If it weren't for the MoD blurring and editing of videos, this could be passed off as "Janes made an error", but it becomes clear. The RAF Reapers have been equipped with something high tech that is either unique to the RAF or simply hasn't been spotted in such a way on US Reapers yet, something that is not currently public knowledge.

Very interesting.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

I actually saw and read the article including an image of the new "bit" At the time I thought what is Janes doing revealing something the MOD had gone to a lot of trouble blanking it out. Seems they have been leaned on heavily.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

The author had some fun speculating, covered just about everything.

The most interesting was a HF antenna for control, but the more likely theory was system to communicate with ground troops. The position and size make the latter seem reasonable.

Interesting it got pulled, must be important
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by ~UNiOnJaCk~ »

^ Perhaps it's best to not speculate on it then? No need to give it more attention if it seems the MoD doesn't want people to know about it.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

@Unionjack
Indeed I fully agree with your statement. That's why I havent mentioned the article's contents or image other than to say they existed. I did sign the OSA years ago and it still applies.

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shark bait
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

Pfffftt, once it's in the public domain you can't take it back.
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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by Tinman »

shark bait wrote:Pfffftt, once it's in the public domain you can't take it back.
But you don't need to make it easier for people that don't have the "need" to know. Do you?

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

Tinman wrote:But you don't need to make it easier for people that don't have the "need" to know. Do you?
Come on mate, it's the interwebz. Spotters are more important than OpSec. Basics, FFS.... ;)

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by Tinman »

downsizer wrote:
Tinman wrote:But you don't need to make it easier for people that don't have the "need" to know. Do you?
Come on mate, it's the interwebz. Spotters are more important than OpSec. Basics, FFS.... ;)
Indeed, I shall punish myself by doing the 5 miles of death twice.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

US Reaper Pilot Shortage Prompts UK to Consider Sovereign Training Capability
As the number of slots available to foreign allies at the US Air Force’s unmanned air vehicle training school continues to be limited, the UK is considering establishing its own domestic capability, ahead of a planned acquisition of a new fleet of remotely piloted aircraft.

Royal Air Force personnel are currently trained to operate the service's 10-strong fleet of General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Block 1 MQ-9 Reapers at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, but the USAF’s well-documented UAV pilot shortage has forced it to ration the slots available, prioritising its own needs.

The UK is due to purchase in excess of 20 new Reaper-derived Certifiable Predator B (CPB) UAVs, and is considering introducing its own training system to support this.The CPB is designed to fly in national airspace – something the UK is keen to be able to do – so it would be suitable for training to take place in the same area that it operates.

MQ-9 and MQ-1 training is provided by CAE. Gene Colabatistto, group president for defence and security, says that conversations are under way to help understand what the UK would require.
Read More: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ve-426827/

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

The article states in excess of 20 Protectors. If that's the case then that's a capability not to be sneezed at. The Predators having proved their worth in the middle east recently.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

"suitable for training in the area in which they will operate"

Good grief, they're going to send one after Corbyn.

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

Nah, the ex Labour frontbench will handle that :lol:

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

Well if you've got one available, we've got this dude called Trump ....

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

very reasonable rates, how about a couple of extra p8?

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Re: General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (UCAV) (RAF)

Post by GibMariner »

Certifiable Predator B nears flight test phase
General Atomics Aeronautical Systems is carrying out ground tests of its newly built Certifiable Predator B unmanned air vehicle, ahead of a flight campaign at the US Army’s Yuma Proving Ground throughout 2017 and 2018.

Aircraft integration finished on 29 August, with the first completed system then moved to the company’s Gray Butte flight operations facility in California.

There it is undergoing six weeks of ground tests and one week of taxi trials, General Atomics tells FlightGlobal, to be followed by a further seven-day inspection by the US Federal Aviation Administration.

Flight tests will follow at the same site, before it moves to Yuma in Arizona for further development trials, including payload and endurance tests.

The Certifiable Predator B design is derived from the company’s MQ-9 Reaper UAV, but has been developed to be able to fly in national airspace, something that systems of its size cannot currently do.

The Royal Air Force has selected the B variant to fulfil its future Protector requirement, with “at least 20” expected to be introduced in the 2020 timeframe, although a contract has not yet been signed.

General Atomics says flight testing will continue through 2017 and 2018, ahead of building a production-conforming aircraft in late 2018, which will be used for the final certification tests.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... se-429474/

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