UK Defence Forum

ArmChairCivvy wrote:[1] Not just that; how long did it take the USN to get the de-icing work in the N. Atlantic conditions (though very high up the conditions by region are not that dissimilar)

[2] Yep, double the crew and quadruple the size of the a/c (and fuel burn?) to do the same job?

You have to wonder just how good AAS will be over land. Its targeted by the USN at littoral operations, it may just be a question of software mind.

The Aussies were really very interesting in buying the sentinel a/c when they were scrapped in sdsr 2010 but it would appear as we get ready to dump them again they’ve gone and bought gulfstreams instead

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/au ... rveillance

The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia for Gulfstream G550 Aircraft with Airborne Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance, and Electronic Warfare (AISREW) mission systems. The estimated cost is $1.3 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on June 23, 2017.

MRCA wrote:and Electronic Warfare

There is a bonus on this deal.

Murphy wrote:Sentinel surveillance aircraft to be retained to 2021

Change the designation to CPR.1

Every time it's about to demise it keeps getting resuscitated.

The fleet went down to 4 on 1 april, and the OSD is 2021. What was turned down was an attempt by the RAF to secure the retention of the 5th aiframe and a plan for staying in service beyond 2021. So, no death and no resuscitation. Just another cut and another question mark in the not too distant future force structure.

Tweet: "DefMin Harriett Baldwin has flown to Norway this week to discuss defence corporation and ISTAR projects #GlobalBritain"

In an aircraft her ministry has been wanting to write-off for years

There is certainly big potential to cooperate with Norway.

Hmm... I wonder if Norway is interested in our plan to add ISTAR sensors onto Poseidon.

shark bait wrote: aircraft her ministry has been wanting to write-off for years

I think (between a rumour and a whisper sort of way) that there were takers for the fleet when it was (going to be) written off for the first time
- older, but still potent, technology
- smaller fleet, more of a support challenge, even if the platform is a bizjet

No resale value, so the MoD has to start to think like a car owner: if I buy "new" to get the same thing done, how much can I allow it to cost me
... if they can't do their sums, they will buy a jet three times as big, supposedly multiuse, but actually compromised in this role

Hats off, though, for experimenting in the naval surveillance role... Watchkeeper next, for that, as an experiment?

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... ts-upgrade

Raytheon UK and the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) may have taken another step toward retaining in service the Sentinel R.1 aircraft equipped with a dual-mode reconnaissance radar. They are believed to have just signed a contract for the Integrated Radar Programme (IRP), a redesign that merges the receiver/exciter and the processor. The IRP offers a big saving in size, weight and power.

Raytheon is marketing to other countries a version of the Sentinel named the Multi Mission Aircraft (MMA) on which additional sensors and communications options are being offered. These include a long-range electro-optical camera such as the UTAS DB-110; an EO/IR video turret; Sigint systems; and upgraded satcom. The radar could also be improved in ways that are additional to the IRP, such as software enhancements. One of these has already been demonstrated in part. It adds maritime surveillance capability to what has been hitherto almost exclusively a ground-surveillance system. The additional features on the MMA have also been offered to the UK for the Sentinel fleet.

MRCA wrote: The additional features on the MMA have also been offered to the UK for the Sentinel fleet.

We just saved 2 bn (by using these for the MMA rather than doubling the P-8 fleet, to be able to do double duty).

This is one of those expense lines that should have a protected budget and be constantly upgraded. There is the money, the defence budget has been cut too much and inefficiencies may still exist in the Armed Forces but I suspect that they are not frontline.

Time to look at where our Aid Budget is actually going? I haven't a clue........

Opinion3 wrote:Time to look at where our Aid Budget is actually going? I haven't a clue........

The tabloids said that it is going to the same consultants, over and over again

Opinion3 wrote:This is one of those expense lines that should have a protected budget and be constantly upgraded.

That was the idea with moving/ consolidating the ISR budget line into the Joint Command
- how that works when they are short of, say a bn, for achieving the full interoperability (comms gateways etc.) of the already expensive JSF fleet... hard to say

shark bait wrote:In an aircraft her ministry has been wanting to write-off for years

There is certainly big potential to cooperate with Norway.

Isn't Sentinel a bit too expencive to drive ministers around?

We dumped Nimrod and in many ways it was better than the American equivalents. Sentinel appears to be potentially ahead of the Yanks (re new JSTARS) and the technology is being used on the P8. So why does our blazing trail always have to get extinguished?

Opinion3 wrote:We dumped Nimrod

Twice, The real farce was the first time around, with the AEW. The radar was better than what was subsequently (after the thrashing) bought, but project mgt was so primitive, with fixed budgets per line item, that they did not update the computer... with much better ones available for pick-up by walking down the High Street.

The computer was terrible, the aximuth alignment motors were very unstable when airborne leading to doppler issues( this was fixable but needed a stronger bulkhead at the after radome, a shift of centre of gravity aft, and the need for a 30% bring back of fuel to act as a heat sink due to inadequate cooling system. It was technically brilliant but desperately needed more pragmatic leadership. This and pressure from the US after their support during Corporate the govt was faced with Westland or scrubbing AEW3.

I am not trying to ignore the many, and frightful issues. But technically on a good few levels the ability of the Nimrod to transit at high speed and then loiter in an operational area at lower speed for long periods made it ideally suited to the task. In the SAR role it could drop equipment unlike the P8 etc.

Whilst new developments can be very very challenging it is usually by practice that the correct solution(s) are found and if we give up on the Sentinel R1 then we will never reap the rewards. This is a plane that begs for continual development.

The Global Express is a good platform, I'd advocate using it across more roles. The RAF should not be giving up on the R1, what really stinks is they would rather keep the VIP squadron and RAF Northolt going instead of saving a rare and highly valuable capability.

That choice isn't within the RAFs gift to make. And I doubt Northolt would close if that choice was made, it covers various lodger units that have to be somewhere, it was selected as such a base when places like Uxbridge closed.

I read the other day that the Yanks have canned their proposed JSTARS update / replacement. They will be using "other platforms and sensors" in a network to do the same job, also means that commanders can (in theory) all be in one place making the decisions.
So with that in mind, should we A) keep the R1's... B) use the P8's with the AAS pod... C) follow the septics.
I think I'd go with option A, any other options /thoughts?

There is a lot more going on at RAF Northolt than just 32 Sqn and in real terms 32 Sqn is cheap and flexible unit with its 146,s they are doing a lot of good work at this time that is not talked about

UK RAF Sentinels watch Crimea

https://www.janes.com/article/82435/uk- ... tch-crimea

RAF Sentinel R1 surveillance aircraft have been flying patrols around the Crimean peninsula since 13 July
The aircraft’s radars can provide coverage of major Russian ports, airbases, missile sites, and troop positions
UK Royal Air Force (RAF) Sentinel R1 surveillance aircraft have been flying patrols around the Crimean peninsula to monitor Russian forces in the contested territory.

At least five missions have been flown by the Sentinel from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus since 13 July, according to open source monitoring of the aircraft’s ADS-B transponders.

Tracks of the missions show the aircraft, from No 5 (Army Co-operation) Squadron, flying in international airspace over the Black Sea for extended periods.