Boeing E-3D Sentry AEW.1 (AWACS) (RAF)

[Little J]

Bit late with that one, I was designing AWACS and ASW 146's as a kid... My house was on finals to Hatfield.

[Mercator]

Off set deal(s) related to the type 26 buy?

Um. Boeing make the plane. It's not an Australian product. So there's nothing to offset there.

The best we can do (here in Australia) is offer some training at "mates rates". It's certainly in Australia's interest to increase the pool of aircraft (as I explained above), but nothing that's going to offset $30 billion worth of frigates. Plus, outside of cricket, we're really nice guys.

[Mercator]

Also, something that is often overlooked here is the confidence of Australia in the aircraft (and by extension, the UK MOD). Your people have seen it in action.

I doubt this is the usual chest thumping. We did not make the aircraft, we just endured the delays. By all accounts, we are extremely pleased with the product. We have people on exchange and access to 5 eyes intelligence, like you. I think if there were better products out there, we'd probably be a bit more circumspect. And certainly there would be leaks and suggestions about going elsewhere (see Tiger, MRH-90). And the Swedish products would certainly be cheaper. Yet, we're very satisfied and you guys are just as keen. There might be something in that.

[Timmymagic]

I doubt this is the usual chest thumping. We did not make the aircraft, we just endured the delays. By all accounts, we are extremely pleased with the product. We have people on exchange and access to 5 eyes intelligence, like you. I think if there were better products out there, we'd probably be a bit more circumspect.

I think its worthwhile noting that Australian personnel also trained on E-3 beforehand as it was Australia's first foray into the world of AWACS. Consequently, they've seen the E-3 in action and are aware of its capabilities so they're well able to compare. The fact that the E767 wasn't the winner is also instructive. And like Mercator says there have been no rumours of unhappiness about its service record. For me its a shoo in, and if we get 6 thats a big increase in capability for the RAF (as we only have 5 E-3 at present).

[Ianmb17]

What would we call the wedgetail in British service as we like to change the names (airseeker,voyager,atlas)also do we have a name for p8 or are we keeping Poseidon

[Timmymagic]

also do we have a name for p8 or are we keeping Poseidon

We're keeping the name.

The Yanks have got better in recent years at naming things....plus there is only so many nautical themed names out there...

[Little J]

Off set deal(s) related to the type 26 buy?

Um. Boeing make the plane. It's not an Australian product. So there's nothing to offset there.

No local content at all? Have to say I'm a bit surprised at that.

Still, let us win the ashes a few times in a row and we'll be good

[Pymes75]

What would we call the wedgetail in British service as we like to change the names (airseeker,voyager,atlas)also do we have a name for p8 or are we keeping Poseidon

It'll be called, Poseidon MRA1.

Good name and no reason to change it...

[R686]

Northern goshawk has a nice ring to it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_goshawk

[Lord Jim]

What would we call the wedgetail in British service as we like to change the names (airseeker,voyager,atlas)also do we have a name for p8 or are we keeping Poseidon

It'll be called, Poseidon MRA1.

Good name and no reason to change it...

I would keep it at MR1 as adding the "A" may give someone the idea it is a bomber.

[Little J]

Northern goshawk has a nice ring to it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_goshawk

I've always like Centurion (for this type of aircraft), can't remember it ever being used for anything other than a Cessna though...

[SKB]

(RAAF) 15 Aug 2016

Pilot Officer Nelson gives you a guided tour of the RAAF E-7A Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft.

[R686]

Northern goshawk has a nice ring to it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_goshawk

I've always like Centurion (for this type of aircraft), can't remember it ever being used for anything other than a Cessna though...

Yep it was used for the UK produced Centurion Main Battle Tank and export to a number of countries

[Little J]

I did mean aircraft (thought mentioning Cessna would be enough), but what I think I'm saying and what I actually say don't always come across the same

[serge750]

Smaller inside then I thought it would be ….still.. would like to see them for the RAF.

[SW1]

Are Boeing still making the 737-700 series on which E7 is based? Or will we need to buy second hand airframes? Pretty certain the 737 production line will becoming a 737max only very soon if not already which isn’t the same.

[Lord Jim]

Well at least here are plenty of 737-700 series out there to choose from. Shouldn't be an issue.

[Lord Jim]

FANTASY WARNING: I wonder, given the need for any E-3 replacement to operate at extended ranges to the north of the UK, and the E-7 lack of AAR, how difficult it would be to install the Wedgetail AWACS Components in the same airframe as used for the Voyager? Its greatly increased fuel load would give the necessary range and endurance and its size would allow additional crew on board and so allow extended patrols, with crew able to take brakes as is possible in the E-3. Of course there would be cost implications but surely Airbus would jump at the opportunity to add an AWACS platform to their growing AAR military portfolio.

[R686]

Who said Wedgetail has no AAR?


http://www.australiandefence.com.au/new ... -over-iraq


http://www.contactairlandandsea.com/201 ... wedgetail/

[Lord Jim]

Ok to be more specific, able to be refuelled by RAF Voyagers, as few European air forces operate tankers with a boom.

[Little J]

Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to just add a boom to E7 than to get all the electrical bits and throw them at an A330 and see what works?

[R686]

Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to just add a boom to E7 than to get all the electrical bits and throw them at an A330 and see what works?

Yes it would be easier to fit a boom to your voyager aircraft, but it has some merit if you also used the A330 as your MPA aircraft for logistical reason’s since that’s not feasible it’s cheaper to put a probe on 737, have you asked Boeing about it?

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2014/08/ ... ng-system/

[shark bait]

An airbus AEW makes little sense, the cost would be huge, and the only benefit would be derisking the project for the French and Germans in a decades time.

An A330 is total overkill for the role, the RAF would be lucky to get 3.

[indeid]

An airbus AEW makes little sense, the cost would be huge, and the only benefit would be derisking the project for the French and Germans in a decades time.

An A330 is total overkill for the role, the RAF would be lucky to get 3.

I imagine the RAF would like an Airbus AWACS solution to be available, if there was one already on the table I reckon we would have ordered it by now, certainly would make things easier politically. As said there isn't, and the cost/risk would be huge so a non starter.

For me Air C2 capability comes down to the number of people, consoles and radios that you have available. Whatever we try to do getting a realistic capability below 9 or 10 seats it just never happens, and its been tried a lot. It is still common to have extra crew onboard not even manning tactical consoles but on the various comms systems that are needed. So I can see the appeal of a wide body platform, if nothing else for growth potential when we need to add yet another (and another) SATCOM channel.

That for me is what makes the E-7 the only choice, and I say that as a big SAAB fan, but at the moment their offering cannot control a Battle Management Area, which is a big drop off in capability.

Interestingly on the boom tanking, I'm sure that for quite a while when the fleet was under operational pressure the E-3D didn't take P&D fuel as they stopped the pilot training and currency. As all the commitments were multi-national they focussed on boom training as that is the most effective way for a heavy to get the gas, and there was usually more boom fits about than P&D. No idea if that has changed.

[seaspear]

included in the upgrades to Wedgetail is project air 5077 phase 5a to be completed by 2020