Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Yeah, I know. The rubbish dropped onto the runway was from (the engine of) a non-French airliner, was then sucked up by the Concorde taking off
- End Of. The story until then had been beautiful
... these bloody foreigners: FOB!
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

Defiance wrote:
abc123 wrote:Why haven't they used 2 ( or 4, never mind ) jet engines, like the Japanese for their Kawasaki C-2?
The way i've had it explained to me is A400M as a tactical aircraft typically operates at lower altitudes for shorter distances where turboprops are more efficient than turbofans (who prefer higher altitude long endurance crusing ala C-17 in a strategic role). More FOD resistant too in 'austere' locations where, as a tactical lifter, they are more likely to visit.

It'll be nuanced than that I expect but those are I believe 2 of the big ones.

I was thinking that the C-17 is also pretty capable to operate from austere runways... Also, how come that the IL-76 or Kawasaki C-2 seem not troubled by the FOD?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

abc123 wrote:seem not troubled by the FOD?
Ever seen any stats/ proof on that?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
abc123 wrote:seem not troubled by the FOD?
Ever seen any stats/ proof on that?

Not much, but:





Also a C-17:

Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The early RAF lease terms had many clauses about what the "very careful, first owner" must not do.

Whereas I have always enjoyed those vids on uTube where they chuck out BMPs from the back of an IL 78 with the crews INSIDE them !
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

downsizer
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

C17 requires a much finer grade on the strip than C130 and A400 do. There is "austere" and austere.

Defiance
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Defiance »

Exactly, whatever the C-17 is cleared for the A400M is cleared for and then some.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Defiance »

The Germans might've found a customer for their 13 A400M's, the Czechs and the Swiss are considering leasing them apparently.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/cze ... om-germany

marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

suspect the plan to cut defence spending is not going to go down well internationally

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

RAF one is going to New Zealand for an Airshow.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by R686 »

Defiance wrote:The Germans might've found a customer for their 13 A400M's, the Czechs and the Swiss are considering leasing them apparently.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/cze ... om-germany
Wonder what the Spanish will do, from memory they also want to offload aircraft.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

wonder will the kiwis take advantage of the spare airframes?
I could see the Austrians being persuaded to retire their herc's possibly poland ?

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by R686 »

marktigger wrote:wonder will the kiwis take advantage of the spare airframes?
I could see the Austrians being persuaded to retire their herc's possibly poland ?
Last I heard was they where set to retire late 2030, with that sort of time frame it's late 2020's before the replacement program kicks off.

I think they are waiting to see what happens with the US Joint Future Theater Lift (JFTL) program .
According to the CRFI, the next C-130 may have to carry up to 190% more payload and assume a new mission — mounted vertical maneuver. Taking on the MVM mission means dropping off medium-weight armored vehicles — think Bradleys, not Abrams — in places the enemy does not expect. Long, concrete runways? Not any more. Fifteen hundred feet of level, hard-packed surface? That might work. Perhaps better: a clearing big enough to land a really big tiltrotor or helicopter. 
Edit
This gives a good insight towards there thinking,

http://ndupress.ndu.edu/Media/News/News ... g-the-gap/

R686
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by R686 »

Apologies to Marktigger I just noticed you said Austrians and not Australians in referring to the C130 which they have 3x airframes according to the WWW which are ex UK birds.


http://www.airforce-technology.com/news ... s-aircraft

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

It is not long ago that the Kiwi Hercs were refurbed (wingbox and all that) and they are already now the oldest original fleet flying (no competition at their planned retirement then).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

yes but they now are looking for a replacement. I did wonder if they would have bought 2nd hand J's had the RAF cast them. A400m would be a risk as only other operator in region is malaysia

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

How many A400 is delivered to RAF?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

abc123 wrote:How many A400 is delivered to RAF?
think we're over halfway in our deliveries

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Gabriele »

ZM400 to ZM413 all in RAF use already, if i haven't missed something.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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abc123
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

marktigger wrote:
abc123 wrote:How many A400 is delivered to RAF?
think we're over halfway in our deliveries

Will all of them be in single squadron or?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

marktigger wrote:A400m would be a risk as only other operator in region is malaysia
Err, how many defence pacts are they in? One that involves Malaysia (directly about its defence) and the more "framework-like" ANZUS.
abc123 wrote:How many A400 is delivered to RAF?
- what has rolled out of the factory line and what is available... does not equate to the same number. As we first took the "self-defence kit" off the spec ( as a cost saving measure) and now they need to be retrofitted
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
marktigger wrote:A400m would be a risk as only other operator in region is malaysia
Err, how many defence pacts are they in? One that involves Malaysia (directly about its defence) and the more "framework-like" ANZUS.
abc123 wrote:How many A400 is delivered to RAF?
- what has rolled out of the factory line and what is available... does not equate to the same number. As we first took the "self-defence kit" off the spec ( as a cost saving measure) and now they need to be retrofitted
Are they capable for parachuting and SF support?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

abc123 wrote: parachuting and SF support?
And AAR for helicopters?
(heh-heh, are you being forgetful or is the briefing file missing something?)

BTW: The Herc was the first one to be able to deliver two jump queus. Can't step back from that. Now, how will these side doors and rear ramp operate... all together now!

SF support: Landing a plane is great! Then you will need to be able to turn it around (dimensions!) and take off again.
-- there was a reason for the retention of a limited number of Hercs
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
abc123 wrote: parachuting and SF support?
And AAR for helicopters?
(heh-heh, are you being forgetful or is the briefing file missing something?)

BTW: The Herc was the first one to be able to deliver two jump queus. Can't step back from that. Now, how will these side doors and rear ramp operate... all together now!

SF support: Landing a plane is great! Then you will need to be able to turn it around (dimensions!) and take off again.
-- there was a reason for the retention of a limited number of Hercs

I'm just asking because there were some reports on problems about parachuting and SF support.

Not forgetful, but has the UK integrated AAR probes on helicopters and bought AAR equipment for A400?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

abc123 wrote:
Are they capable for parachuting and SF support?

no but neither was the c130j at this stage in its career!

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