Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

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marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

i think i remember hearing something that the MoD leased Belfasts every year from the RAF retired them till Heavy Lift retired them

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Old RN
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Old RN »

I understand that when the RAF ordered the Hercules in the late 1960s (?) it was in competition with more Belfasts. I wonder what would have happened if there gad been an order for (say) 50 more Belfasts? :D

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

marktigger wrote:i think i remember hearing something that the MoD leased Belfasts every year from the RAF retired them till Heavy Lift retired them
No truth in that whatsoever.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: some of them were later chartered during the Falklands war, with some sources suggesting that this cost more than keeping all the aircraft in RAF service until the 1990s.[5] HeavyLift's Belfasts were again contracted to support the RAF during the first Gulf War
No truth in "every" year, more like every decade (until scrapped).
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marktigger
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

downsizer wrote:
marktigger wrote:i think i remember hearing something that the MoD leased Belfasts every year from the RAF retired them till Heavy Lift retired them
No truth in that whatsoever.
really and you of course have the proof of that because they featured very promenantly in moving equipment for the Rhodesia operation in the early 80's, the Falklands they never flew into Northern ireland carrying equipment or to Kuwait? Of couse we don't use Antonovs to move kit round the world either. Obviously you've not been on ops then!

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

arfah wrote:I remember watching a Belfast on approach to Southend Airport.

A few years later, they finally scrapped it there.
Heavy Lift passed their last one to a company in Australia not sure if its still flying (if it is and nearing retirement it'd be nice to see in back in Northern Ireland at the Ulster Aviation society museum.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

Sorry, not sure what's happened here, I seem to have quoted the wrong post. :oops:

I'm well aware of how much AT space we charter having working in the AT world for a long time, unless you have an unlimited budget it works out cheaper in the long run.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

marktigger wrote:
arfah wrote:I remember watching a Belfast on approach to Southend Airport.

A few years later, they finally scrapped it there.
Heavy Lift passed their last one to a company in Australia not sure if its still flying (if it is and nearing retirement it'd be nice to see in back in Northern Ireland at the Ulster Aviation society museum.
I don't think it is, last I heard.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

downsizer wrote:Sorry, not sure what's happened here, I seem to have quoted the wrong post. :oops:

I'm well aware of how much AT space we charter having working in the AT world for a long time, unless you have an unlimited budget it works out cheaper in the long run.

in some ways i agree it does. the C17 certainly lifted some of the pressure off. A400m Has good capacity when the bugs are ironed out (which i strongly suspect the RAF will). personally I'd likes us to have stuck to the original plan of 2x 12 aircraft squadrons of each but added a full 12 aircraft squadron of C17's

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

A400 will work because we will make it work, like we always do.

I maintain however that we should have stuck with a 2 type fleet of C17s and Js. A400 doesn't really bring anything else to the party.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by sea_eagle »

downsizer wrote:I maintain however that we should have stuck with a 2 type fleet of C17s and Js. A400 doesn't really bring anything else to the party.
Well I stand by my original comment from p2...
I think the A400M, despite the development troubles (which all major programmes have), is looking to be a very successful (and European built) transport aircraft for the future. C130J are getting long in the tooth and doesn't have the necessary size to take the new larger military vehicles. Lockheed don't have a replacement for the C130J in design. Although the C130 will continue in service with many air forces for years.

I think all the advantages are listed in the intro on p1...

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

This is where it all went wrong (the rest of the reported problems are the normal ones that all new types have gone through):

" [Airbus] insists its pending decision between the European powerplant and a rival PW800-based offer from Pratt &Whitney Canada will be made purely on commercial grounds, picking the North American bid could prove politically unpalatable to some of the A400M's customer nations"

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ce-164830/

More exactly, anyone interested can look up who was the President of France at the time... even an expert aviation publication could not bring itself to utter the facts (there would have been consequences...)
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by topman »

sea_eagle wrote:
and doesn't have the necessary size to take the new larger military vehicles. Lockheed don't have a replacement for the C130J in design. Although the C130 will continue in service with many air forces for years.

I think all the advantages are listed in the intro on p1...
I don't think thats a massive issue, I remember reading about this issue, albeit with the US forces. The herc was likely big enough for years to come regarding current and planned size of vehicles. I doubt our requirement is so different, not only that large movements of vehicles are moved by sea anyway. In the grand scheme of things it's real just a small chunk of AT that spends it's time moving vehicles. The arguement that we need A400M to move vehicles doesn't work for me.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Halidon »

sea_eagle wrote:Lockheed don't have a replacement for the C130J in design.
Would you care to wager on that point?

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Dahedd »

While I imagine any problems will be sorted & it'll go onto be a great success I'm left wondering whether we missed an opportunity to team up with the Ukrainians & develop a westernized AN70 or such like, maybe even something bigger. Would be a great aircraft for a NATO heavy lift pool instead of constantly leasing.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

downsizer wrote:A400 will work because we will make it work, like we always do.

I maintain however that we should have stuck with a 2 type fleet of C17s and Js. A400 doesn't really bring anything else to the party.

Fully agreed. ;)
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by shark bait »

Dahedd wrote:I'm left wondering whether we missed an opportunity to team up with the Ukrainians & develop a westernized AN70
The AN124 was considered at the time of the C17 competition, with RR engine's and the rest of the antique equipment removed.

It did seem quite attractive, lifting more, further, an at a cheaper price.

So pretty big politocal and technical hurdles to get over to make it happen, which is why the idea stalled I guess.
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... b-fix.html

Good news for the frenchies....if 100% accurate.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by arfah »

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jimthelad
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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

It would appear the paradrop issues are now sorted.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news ... id=DN_News

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

jimthelad wrote:It would appear the paradrop issues are now sorted.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news ... id=DN_News
I thought the problem was simultaneously dropping from both sides of the aircraft. Dropping from one side has never been an issue AFAIK.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

I thought there was meant to be dirty air issues from the airflow of the wing/prop wash and some issues with speed.

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Re: Airbus A400M Atlas (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

More like the airflow fro the huge propellers potentially bringing the jump queues together?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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